which fighters were one win away from being the goat?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by goat15, Mar 31, 2011.


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  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    There's a "best fighter" in every generation, and they almost always transcend the sport.

    Ali, Pacquiao, Leonard and Tyson are all good examples.
     
    McGrain, Apr 3, 2011
    McGrain, Apr 3, 2011
    #91
  2. goat15

    goat15 Active Member Full Member

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    none of those fighters transcended the sport for the reasons robinson did.

    ali - politics.
    pacquiao - nationality.
    leonard - hype.
    tyson - persona.

    come on, people didn't watch those guys to see a man. they watched those guys to see events.
     
    goat15, Apr 3, 2011
    goat15, Apr 3, 2011
    #92
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I think you may have lost me, but I basically don't see Robinson's fame or his "transcending the sport" as a defining reason for his being placed at #1.
     
    McGrain, Apr 3, 2011
    McGrain, Apr 3, 2011
    #93
  4. goat15

    goat15 Active Member Full Member

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    it's the reason he transcended the sport. he did so because of how he fought. people went to see him because they wanted to see the personification of boxing. he made people understand why others followed the sport.
     
    goat15, Apr 3, 2011
    goat15, Apr 3, 2011
    #94
  5. Blood Green

    Blood Green Guest

    If Michael Spinks pulled off the Tyson win, he'd also be retiring undefeated. That's the best pick I can think of.
     
    Blood Green, Apr 3, 2011
    Blood Green, Apr 3, 2011
    #95
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    He was very popular, had a pleasing style and was likely the outstanding fighter at the time when boxing was at its zenith in terms of audience.

    So what?
     
    McGrain, Apr 3, 2011
    McGrain, Apr 3, 2011
    #96
  7. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Well, that's because Seamus is full of ****. A no-brainer really.

    But, yeah, Fitz looks bad on film, but that doesn't take away from the man's accomplishements. They are obviously huge. Vitaly looks **** on film too, incidentally, but clearly does something right.

    I don't see the problem with separating how a fighter looks on film from what he actually achieved.
     
    Bokaj, Apr 3, 2011
    Bokaj, Apr 3, 2011
    #97
  8. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Perhaps also in terms of overall quality. (Even though I'd argue that the 80's was probably at least as jam packed with quality, but it did lack a Robinson)
     
    Bokaj, Apr 3, 2011
    Bokaj, Apr 3, 2011
    #98
  9. goat15

    goat15 Active Member Full Member

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    so, when you factor in his achievements, which are at least comparable to everyone else's, and were compiled fighting in a particular way - the perfect blend of artistry and savagery, you've got your greatest.

    i can see that we will not reach an understanding, as we have different ideas about the nature and relevance of beauty and perfection.
     
    goat15, Apr 3, 2011
    goat15, Apr 3, 2011
    #99
  10. Swarmer

    Swarmer Patrick Full Member

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    this is the same kind of nonsense that makes talking about Ali or Tyson in H2H matchups absolutely worthless. I for one would think that a defensively adept mobile heavyweight and a former lineal heavyweight champion would be a tough matchup for Ali at any point but I guess not.

    I would mention a few fighters Lewis fought that would give Ali a tough time or maybe eke out a decision, but since people think of Ali even in his prime as unquestionably unbeatable or unhittable, what's the point?
     
    Swarmer, Apr 3, 2011
    Swarmer, Apr 3, 2011
    #100
  11. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    This is very reasonable.

    I don't think Louis' victims looks that good on film generally (with Conn and Walcott as the biggest exceptions), but he beat what was there to beat and he did it convincingly and consistently. It's also worth noting that he looks to be an evolutionary step ahead most of his opponents.
     
    Bokaj, Apr 3, 2011
    Bokaj, Apr 3, 2011
    #101
  12. goat15

    goat15 Active Member Full Member

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    a fading ali against walcott would have been quite the fight.
     
    goat15, Apr 3, 2011
    goat15, Apr 3, 2011
    #102
  13. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    :lol: You and I must be visiting different forums.
     
    Bokaj, Apr 3, 2011
    Bokaj, Apr 3, 2011
    #103
  14. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Oh yes. Louis' best win imo.
     
    Bokaj, Apr 3, 2011
    Bokaj, Apr 3, 2011
    #104
  15. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

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    I would disagree with you. I don't think Schmeling has anything to offer Ali, at least that is what film footage indicates.

    If you could address this also, S.
     
    Addie, Apr 3, 2011
    Addie, Apr 3, 2011
    #105
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