Cleveland Williams vs Ingemar Johansson

No he wasn't. He only fought maybe two rated HWs over the entire '50s, and didn't fight a top 5 contender until 1960.

From Time Magazine:
"Whatever his connections, many boxing buffs see Liston as the U.S.'s most promising challenger for Sweden's Johansson, even though Liston has so far fought only second-raters."
-August 1959 (right after Liston had KO'd Nino Valdes)

Patterson and Cooper weren't big punchers?

Even Machen was coming off noteworthy stoppage wins over Tommy Jackson and Nino Valdes.

 

Here are the Ring Magazine Heavyweight Rankings from 1957-1962
(In red the people Liston beat)

1957

1.

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2.

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3. Willie Pastrano
4.

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5. Pat McMurtry
6.

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7.

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8.

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9. Alex Miteff
10. Ingemar Johansson

1958

1. Ingemar Johansson
2.

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3.

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4. Henry Cooper
5. Willie Pastrano
6. Archie Moore
7.

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8. Brian London
9. Sonny Liston
10.

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1959

1.

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2.

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3. Sonny Liston
4. Henry Cooper
5.

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6.

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7.

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8.

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9. Joe Erskine
10. Alex Miteff

1960

1. Sonny Liston
2. Ingemar Johansson
3.

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4.

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5. Henry Cooper
6.

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7. Robert Cleroux
8. Alex Miteff
9. Dick Richardson
10. Joe Erskine


1961

1. Sonny Liston
2.

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3.

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4. Alejandro Lavorante
5. Robert Cleroux
6. Ingemar Johansson
7.

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8. Henry Cooper
9. Cassius Clay
10. George Logan

1962

1. Floyd Patterson
2. Cassius Clay
3. Doug Jones
4. Ingemar Johansson
5.

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6.

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7. Robert Cleroux
8. Billy Daniels
9. Archie Moore
10. Henry Cooper

Now that's what I call cleaning out the division. Liston also beat these guys when they were in there primes(all under the age of 28 except Valdes).

Don't give me the "Liston never fought european heavyweight" crap. An old Nino Valdes tore the european heavyweight scene a new *******. The top european heavyweights made Nino Valdes looked like Jack Dempsey in his prime The Euro journalists even wrote about it in the papers how devastating Valdes looked. Valdes couldn't come close to beating the best american heavyweights.

 

A. Floyd, ok. Floyd also knocked out Johannson. TWICE.

B. Cooper? He was 14-4 when he fought johansson. Coming off back to back stoppage losses to Joe Bygraves and Peter Bates LMAO. He was nowhere near his prime. How does Johansson do vs the early 1960s henry cooper?

C. Machen? He had decent offense, but he was by no means one of the divisions top punchers.

- As far as I am concerned...the only dangerous top notch puncher he fought was Floyd Patterson, whom he compiled a 1-2 record against

- Note: All of these men were under 200lb.

- What puncher above 200lb did Johansson fight? Name one. Don't make me laugh by saying a washed up Hein Ten Hoff.

 

susan,



european champion (and world rated) franco cavicchi who had 41 KO wins was over 200lb.

heinz nuehaus - who beat rex layne and joey maxim (two beter wins than willaims ever recorded) was over 200 pounds and more experienced.

even 6'4''dick richardson was over 200lb and he Ko'd karl mildenburger and hans kalbfel (who archie moore could not Knockout), beat bob baker, ezzard charles and a personal favorite of yours bert whitehurst...

Brian london was 207 against ingo and had 90% KO record among his wins. London stopped willie pastrano, howard king and iced roger rischer quicker than Liston ever did, he also beat zora folley.


even joe bygraves -Kod albert westphal as quick as liston...


so for a guy who won the title in 22 fights johansson still beat a greater ratio of decent 200lb plus punchers than wiliams who had a weight advantage 70 times in 92 fights. and williams stil wound up in a draw with the 194lb guy ingo iced in a round!

 

Liston wasnt avoided that long. He hit the ratings in 58' for winning 7 fights against unrated fighters who had all lost their previous fight. Those guys still had names but had just lost their rating - at that time.

59' was the year sonny started fighting rated fighters but ingo quite rightly went ahead of him for iceing machen. de john lost 2 of his last 4.

It wasnt until 1960 where Liston was facing fighters rated above him in the ratings anyway in machen folley and harris. - a beter run than the big cat ever had.

 

Is this actually a statement of support for Williams disgracefully pulling out of the fight with no good reason ? :shock:

Your guy disgraced himself. Worse than Ingo ever did. Accept it and move on.

 

He was ranked by RING magazine in 1955 too. :good
Johansson beat him in 1956.

 

Only in your dreams. Ingemar disgraced himself so badly that he put his entire country to shame and they wouldn't give him his silver medal for the next 30 years. He became known as a coward amongst boxing circles.

Williams never once disgraced himself in his career. He also BEAT dick richardson

You think Williams would run away from Ed Sanders because he looked "Big and Scary?" I hope the ref checked ingo's trunks afterward for soil :rofl

 

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Pure speculation

 

PowerPuncher,

Agreed. The article also states Williams is a "first rate puncher with noteworthy skill." It also claims Williams "has been avoided too".

 

Ingo by KO inside of 6.

 

Williams is overrated (by many) in my opinion.

Johansson is underrated (by some) in my opinion.

 

Don't let facts get in the way of a good Classicist drool fest over the greatest Heayweight never to win a title... other than Ron Lyle.

 

:good yes, a lot less facts and a lot more drooling will allow all of us on confusing cleveland big cat williams with sonny Liston just because he was tall and muscular...

even though he drew with ingo's one round victim.