Who should rank higher on the all-time Heavyweight list - Marciano or Holyfield?

Holyfield would not have gone undefeated. If Michael Moorer could beat him, so could Charles or Walcott.

 

Fixed.

 

Never losing. Dominating his division with a perfect record. Having a high KO percentage and knockout power in both hands. Never seriously hurt in a fight. Beat several ATG former champions convincingly: Joe Louis, Ezzard Charles, Jersey Joe Walcott, Archie Moore.

Holyfield was beaten multiple times in his prime, was knocked out, and didn't have truly dangerous power as a heavyweight. He wasn't the best in his division at the time, he didn't dominate.

Also, since Rocky was the smaller man, he is clearly better P4P too.

 

Deja-****ing-Vu?

 

It's an interesting question ...

Holyfield fought and defeated much better men. In addition when he fought Bowe, Lewis, Moorer and others he was the old man fighting young men. However I believe that as much as any 1990's fighter Holyfield was juiced up and that completely knocks everything out of balance.

I think the prime cruiserweight Holyfield was much better than anyone Marciano fought and it would have been a very interesting fight ...

 

Well, of course it doesn´t make sense if you base your rankings on pure spaculation and fantasy. But it does if you base it on what actually happened. :thumbsup

 

I take his win over Qawi in their first fight as Holyfield's best victory. Okay.it was at cruiserweight,but it would have been considered heavyweight in an earlier era.

 

Holyfield in his prime was both outpointed and stopped. Marciano went his entire career undefeated, decisively getting the better of everyone he ever fought. Marciano wins.

Holyfield was never clearly the best fighter in his division. Marciano cleaned out his division. Marciano wins.

Holyfield kept fighting for years too long, tarnishing his legacy. Marciano walked away at the top with nobody left to fight. Marciano wins.

In short, Marciano wins.

:hat

 

Woulda, coulda, shoulda ... clearly the foundation of every good opinion. :thumbsup

 

I include it as a heavyweight fight when ranking against historical heavyweights.

But how is Qawi a better scalp than Bowe as a heavyweight ?

 

I was going on the criteria of Holyfield's form at the time he fought Qawi.

 

I actually find it odd when people say they don't do that in similar instances.

 

It was a big leap forward for him, for sure.
He was perhaps a bigger underdog for Bowe and Tyson though.

 

I'm sure there are several people on this board who will INSIST that cruiserweight championship wins over quality fighters can in absolutely no way add to a HW ranking, if the fight was made at 190, 195 or 200 it cannot even count as any sort of HW credit.
At the same time they will accept pre-1970 wins over even fringe tier "contenders" who may weigh no more than 180 !

 

It's hardly speculative. Holyfield fought far bigger punchers than Marciano, he beat better fighters, he fought on far longer. Do you really think Marciano could have fought on like Holy? He was starting to slip before he called it quits and he was still young.