Cleveland Williams vs Ingemar Johansson

Ingo only lost to Patterson x2 (by KOx2)... he also beat Patterson once (by KO). He beat Henry Cooper KO5, Archie McBride W10, a previously undefeated Eddie Machen KO1, Brian London W12, and several decent European based fighters like Bygraves x2, Erskine, and Richardson among others. Not the best resume I've seen but not bad. The KO wins over Machen and Patterson are very nice. He beat the only man who ever beat him.

Williams got the crap beat out of him several times and never came close to beating those guys... Satterfield, Liston x2, Ali, Al Jones, , Mac Foster x2, and Alvin Lewis all stopped him. Williams stopped Ernie Terrell in 7 and drew with Eddie Machen. He also lost a SD to Terrell.

 

You are 100% right. I know it, you know it, but there apears to be a revisionist "big cat fetish" going on here...

 

Damn this match up is definitely showing the real boxing historians. I was matching styles and williams looked good. But if cleveland had such lack luster opponants, then maybe Johansson might take it out.

 

Ingo fought a negative fight and got DQ'd. In an amateur fight. I have no wish to defend him at all. It's just YOU bring it up thinking it's some proof of his worth as a pro fighter.
INGEMAR DISGRACED HIMSELF. Anyone can see that. It's not the sum of his career though, or his defining moment.

The fact with Williams is he didn't even get in the ring for the Richardson rematch, he was literally struck with the fear of God. People paid money to see the fight, and he bottled out at the last minute. And you seriously say, "Williams never once disgraced himself in his career" !??

Are you really that biased and besotted with your usual adolescent hero-worship that you can't accept that Williams' actions were disgraceful and embarrassing and cowardly ?

 

Love is blind...

 

We all know Jorge Luis Gonzalez is the greatest heavyweight to bestride the division with victories over Lennox Lewis and Riddick Bowe!

 

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Cleveland Williams KO 3 Ingemar Johannson

 

and yet he won this, his last fightatsch

 

SuzieQ, nice pic.
Ingemar Johansson was certainly no King Kong or all-time great. I'm no fan of his. He's one of the weaker heavyweight champions too.
But I give credit where it's due.
By all reasonable measures Ingo is a better fighter than Williams, as has been explained with FACTS several times on this thread, by myself, choklab, Seamus and others.

 

Facts? What facts. What makes you think Johansson can handle a 6'3 215lb powerful fast aggresive heavyweight? Johansson did not have the best set of whiskers. I think Williams would overwhelm Ingo early before Ingemar could set him up for a trap.

 

the fact williams did not make the grade.

8-3 sylvester jones handed williams his ass on his coming out party for his newyork debut on the marciano v lastarza card at the polo grounds. williams was boasting a manufactured 25-0 but was decked twice in his first competative fight. It should have been clevelands launch pad.

ingo had already beat rated fighters like 43-3 franco cavicchi plus #1 eddie machen and won the undisputed title by KO 3 fights earlier after 22 fights..

Bob satterfeild was the first known fighter williams fought but that was in his 31st fight, and we know what happened there, dispite all the advantages. wiliams took such a wolloping he retired for 2 years to get over it.

In his "comeback" williams was nursed through 12 further low risk fights to build his confidence up before fighting the next decent fighter, who knocked him out.

Even when williams beat a young unranked terrell who was 24-3 to his 51-4 he lost the return within 12 months....and that was his highlight?

unless his performance against ali (where he fared no beter than brian london) was the real highlight? or the mac foster hiding, blue lewis hiding...

yes, all that powerful, fast aggresion and 215pounds took him all that way..

 

Yeah, like he overwhelmed Machen early . ..... oh, wait, that was Johansson.
Williams with all his fights never overwhelmed any top fighter early. Another FACT.

Precisely.
:good

 

Machen was undefeated, but he only drew against Folley, in his previous fight, and would lose in the return
Williams was 35, when he lost to Jones and Foster ,and 37 when he lost to Lewis .Ingo was 31 when the bell saved him against London ,who couldnt hit like any of those 3.Plus Ingo had not been shot, by a 357 Magnum ,and was not carrying a bullet in his hip where it lodged after ploughing through his stomach wall, and into his colon .Williams was finished after he got shot. but you bring up his losses if you like , it gives us the measure of you.