Barrera was a great fighter, I love wathing him. But he was not quite on the level we talking about here. Yes, Saddler lost to inferior fighters. But we are talking about the best versions of both here. And aside of the physical advantages he just was at a different level to MAB. He was one of the elite atgs while Barrera is one of the lower scale atgs. If Barrera would have a style advantage I´d pick him but he is at a disadvantage here. btw. I like Kid Chocolate´s chances in here. Would be a great fight too. Oh, and I love "Hook". At least one thing Pachilles and I have in common. :thumbsup
Barrera didn't bully anything he boxed on the back foot like a good little boy. Saddler isn't half the technician, doesn't have the defense and Hamed makes him go TIMBEEEEEEEEEER
Man, that isn't even true. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ISwivnhMpI[/ame] I think you can see Barrera lead with almost every punch in the first minute of this H/L. He leads with the left hook on 40 seconds for Christ Sake. He fights aggressively within the circle. He roughouses up close, goes low, rattles the poor pricks face of the ring post and overall destroys the rhythm of his opponent who is not as good as Pep anyway. Hamed would get ****ing killed.
Except it is if you watch the whole fight its stick and move claiming the centre of the ring boxing. MAB did lead with left hooks (when doesn't he?) and got out soon as possible. Saddler's left hook isn't as fast/sharp and he doesn't have the footwork to bounce in and out, actually he's a plodder anyway. He's taking Hamed's best punches, Barrera didn't. Styles make fights and Hamed is allot stronger than Pep and his punches are much more powerful. Not to mention when Saddler tries his mauling game he's taking maybe the best FW uppercut ever for his trouble
Famechon has the infighting skills not to get caught like a dear in headlights too when Saddler moves in close, but I fear for his chin - I don't think it was the best. Of that list I'd probably give Sanchez the best chance, simply because I really rate his durability and stamina and think he can survive Saddler's physicality and outbox him somewhat. Another guy maybe worth a mention is Jim Driscoll. Not someone I would confidently pick but he seemed to have those fast feet and hands that would pester Saddler. Question mark over his durability though, like most boxer types...
Johnny Dundee is another man to consider. If he could duel with a flawless boxer like Benny Leonard (who was naturally bigger and also the possessor of a fight-ending punch), then I don't see why he couldn't take Saddler.
Footage I watched of Saddler doesn't show him to be at a different level to MAB in terms of technical ability. That's almost certainly false. Likewise, if we're talking about the best versions of both fighters than why was it okay for that other 'fella to use the JJ fight as a reference? That was what I was responding to.
That's a little different from "boxing off the backfoot like a good little boy"!! Barrera didn't lead with his face but he was right in Hamed's ****, and that's a fact. Just because it's a habit, doesn't somehow excuse if from being considered in understanding Barrera's overall aggression in the fight. It was sharper, in the sense that he could throw it over a very short distance with greater power. It was a short-arm left-hook that saw off Bossio. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETn33hlwc6M&feature=related[/ame] a plodder that caught and killed a fighter in Willie Pep that makes Hamed look like a plodder. Whatever your eyes tell you about his style he got results against a far superior fighter to Hamed with that footwork, and Hamed is easier to hit. As the Barrera fight showed, he is there to fight. I think he could. He was never knocked out in one-hundred and sixty two contests and he fought some superb punchers. Yep, and the styles here favour Sadler so completely it's astonishing to me that you even mention the fact. What do you see as the proof that Hamed was stronger than Pep? I think that's a highly debatable remark. Certainly Pep did far more serious work on the inside with grappling and smothering. Hamed is a powerful puncher, but Saddler was never knocked out in all those fights. I think he has the better chin in the fight AND the better power in the fight. The facts are that Hamed fought ONE fighter approaching Saddler's level of quality, and he got owned. He got mauled on the inside a couple of times and his uppercut was a non-factor. He didn't land much of his best stuff, and when it did it didn't dent Barrera. Saddler is bigger, stronger, hits harder, has a better chin, is more accomplished, has a better resume, dominated a vastly superior fighter of the slickster type. There is literally no reason to pick Hamed in such a match up, aside from your being his fanboy.
I think that's probably true, but just to point out that Saddler delivered more power from a similar technical level. But it is fair of you to point that out.
Moore might of had an excellent chance of beating an older Saddler pretty conclusively with his hard punching - counter punching style. In fact in his prime he could be a handful for Saddler. Ramos though, surely he was of a similar size to Saddler he was tall for a Featherweight and very strongly built also, maybe not height-wise, but size-wise he aint far off Saddler. Perhaps even strength-wise also. Yeh it would be a brawl, you'd have to favour Saddler though. Marcel also has the offence to stunt Saddler a bit, something that Famechon may lack. Driscoll also has some power in his right hand that would keep Saddler off IMO.
I think Barrera is a great shout. That would be a fun fight to watch, if an incredibly ugly and violent one. I rate MAB's abilities alot higher than some, it seems. He may not have an all time elite legacy(He's pretty close) but I think its clear that he has ATG ability. He has some stellar victories over really good opponents.
Well, you´ve got to take quality of opposition into account. The way Saddler dealt with Pep ... did MAB ever look as good against someone of similar class?
Attell and Canzoneri would be good bets if you really had to bet. Arguello and Sanchez maybe too. Henry Armstrong. Saddler was a beast though, I wouldn't WANT to bet against him.
1. Again don't make MAB out to be aggressive in this fight, he wasn't he boxed beautifully, with skills Saddler simply did not possess, The fight is nothing alike 2. A very nice short left hook, still he had to stay in range and eat punches to land it 3. Because he was so much stronger than Pep and walked through his punches, Hamed is stronger than Pep though and has punches you have to respect, he didn't respect Pep's power too much 4. none near the puncher hamed was 5. Face first plodder takes on a ATG powerpunching counter puncher, yep great style for him there 6. The fact he picked opponents up bodyslamming them, throwing them around, just look at Hamed's legs, then look at the podgy Pep who just lacked muscle. Hamed would also spar with much bigger men. Pep also was past prime and he may have been well past it 7. Again he hasn't been in with a puncher who is powerful or fast and accurate as Hamed so thats moot. A good chin no doubt 8. So we judge a fighter on 1 fight that is stylistically a different dimension to the plod king? Hamed fought plenty of top level ranked opponents. Bungu was actually as proven in resume as MAB when Hamed ko'd him 9. Saddler has a better resume but a worse skill set. Lets not forget Pep was past prime, maybe severely past prime 10. I think I've given my reasons, Gamboa eats Saddler up too, so does Arguello, Pacquaio, Pedroza, JMM, Canzi, Chocolate, Guzman, Sanchez. Mayweather wins a shut out over him at 130 or maybe stops him late. Sadler, Marcel, MAB, Morales are 50-50s imo