If Frazier didn't defeat Ali, still ATG?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by la-califa, Apr 12, 2011.


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  1. la-califa

    la-califa Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Joe Frazier didn't win FOTC. is his resume still enough to be an ATG? He did fight, Ellis, Quarry, Mathis, Bonavena, Foster. But he did lose to Foreman twice. & didn't fight Norton, Shavers, Lyle, Young. is this debatable or a no-brainer for Smokin' Joe?
     
    la-califa, Apr 12, 2011
    la-califa, Apr 12, 2011
    #1
  2. punchy

    punchy Well-Known Member Full Member

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    He ruled the roost for almost five years and had nine defences of the title against absolute top tier competition before losing to Foreman, so an all time great, yes.
     
    punchy, Apr 12, 2011
    punchy, Apr 12, 2011
    #2
  3. Swarmer

    Swarmer Patrick Full Member

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    nope.

    Well, not top 10 material for sure. His legacy is defined by Ali, and the same in reverse in some ways.
     
    Swarmer, Apr 12, 2011
    Swarmer, Apr 12, 2011
    #3
  4. cuchulain

    cuchulain Loyal Member Full Member

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    Nope.

    He would just miss ATG ststus.

    His reign would be 3 years with six defences, none of them ATGs.


    The FOTC puts him up there.
     
    cuchulain, Apr 12, 2011
    cuchulain, Apr 12, 2011
    #4
  5. MagnaNasakki

    MagnaNasakki Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I agree. Ali was his great win. His only one. Without FOTC, he's a very good transitional champion who either held the title between Ali and Foreman(If FOTC never happens) or a place holder till Ali got back(If Ali wins).
     
    MagnaNasakki, Apr 13, 2011
    MagnaNasakki, Apr 13, 2011
    #5
  6. johnmaff36

    johnmaff36 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    WTF???????????? Daniels, Ziggy, Stander??? Top Tier????
     
    johnmaff36, Apr 13, 2011
    johnmaff36, Apr 13, 2011
    #6
  7. johnmaff36

    johnmaff36 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    This:deal
     
    johnmaff36, Apr 13, 2011
    johnmaff36, Apr 13, 2011
    #7
  8. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

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    Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, John...You don't earn a nickname like "Ziggy" just by having the last name "Zyglewicz". ...So, let's just leave the Z man out of this, okay? :twisted:
     
    Boxed Ears, Apr 13, 2011
    Boxed Ears, Apr 13, 2011
    #8
  9. Goyourownway

    Goyourownway Insanity enthusiast Full Member

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    It's debatable whether he's an ATG,anyway.Without Ali,that one and only claim to greatness falls right down the shitter.Had he gone about consistently fighting top rated contenders and not cherry picked his way around the division,he could have built himself a legacy that wasn't based entirely around Ali.But he didn't,and he allowed himself to leech off of his success and fame and fall into the category of 'the opponent'.
     
    Goyourownway, Apr 13, 2011
    Goyourownway, Apr 13, 2011
    #9
  10. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Nope, but he would still be remembered as a great contender and Olympic champion, worthy of a top 30 spot.
     
    Mendoza, Apr 13, 2011
    Mendoza, Apr 13, 2011
    #10
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    A timely interjection .

    " Print the legend" :good
     
    mcvey, Apr 13, 2011
    mcvey, Apr 13, 2011
    #11
  12. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Nah, I´d rate him behind Patterson, Schmeling, Charles, Dempsey and so on. Probably not Top15, perhaps not Top20.
     
    bodhi, Apr 13, 2011
    bodhi, Apr 13, 2011
    #12
  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    IMO No, he was a great fighter the night he beat Ali , but the rest of his resume is rather average.
    Ellis for example , beat Chuvalo,Quarry, Bonavena ,Patterson ,and Martin, and would proably have beaten Mathis who was unranked when Frazier beat him, no one talks of him as an ATG.
    Frazier was defined by FOTC,imo.
     
    mcvey, Apr 13, 2011
    mcvey, Apr 13, 2011
    #13
  14. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    True. Joe's victory over Ellis' himself was quite impressive, though.
     
    Bokaj, Apr 13, 2011
    Bokaj, Apr 13, 2011
    #14
  15. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    On paper. But yeah, Ellis is largely ignored.
     
    bodhi, Apr 13, 2011
    bodhi, Apr 13, 2011
    #15
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