:good SO true this Bailey guy is a joke... I know he didnt even see most of those Toney fights he was talking about and obviously dont have a clue on the quality of some of the guys he beat..... He says Tim Littles barely beat Frankie Liles in the first fight? Bull**** he dominated Liles and the only reason he says it was close was cause he looked it up on Boxing Records and went by how the delusional judges saw it... Barkley was on a good roll and was rejuviinated going into his fight with Toney. Many thought this was an even matched fight and Toney completely dominated him.... His fight with Charles Williiams,, yey he lost to the awkward Maske In Germany so what? He was still a damn good fighter i saw this fight live and Toney was impressive and kod a very tough willams with one shot...... Bailey gets all his info from boxing records and likes to twist the facts around, what a tool:verysad
What kind of a joke comment is that . Read on Toneys SMW resume isnt anywhere near as good as Calzaghes and Calzaghes resume in 2 fights at LHW is better than Toneys atsch
Nunn. Definitely. For me, Calzaghe loses most all hypothetical matchups. He was carefully handled and placed in fights. Basically the only people in history he could've beaten at the times when he could've beaten them, he did. His management deserves to be in the HOF, he does not however. Ever ask yourself why he chose the runner up from the Contender to fight in his showcase fight of his career, and not the winner?!?! His management didn't think he would beat Sergio "the fake" Mora, so the targetted Peter "the punching bag" Manfredo.
Good post. Nothing to argue with there. If Joe's kids weren't running ESB out of his basement he would be as completely unknown and unmentioned around here as he is in the US. Joe accomplished nothing relevant in comparison to the sport's historical greats. Fighting a couple old champs and then quickly retiring doesn't change his classification as the UK's Sven Ottke equivalent. A good (not great) fighter and athlete more equivalent to guys like Sheika, Ottke, Reid, Starie, and Kessler than not. No where close to an ATG. Had the unique position of being a solitary fish in a small homogeneous pond - in a declining era covering several generations for the sport in general. A gaudy record covering a long period in which he fought cripples, old men, regional/domestic bums, and a couple marginal players. Simple as that. Fair athlete, somewhat limited athleticism, decent not exceptional handspeed (unless you have slow hands then you might think he's overly quick), almost zero punching power (as he boiled down to make 168 and thus had no muscle development in his upper body as a sacrifice to scrape in under the limit), fought in a crappy division after all the talent either retired, was injured, or moved up to the more relevant LHW division, and always had favorable conditions and even then had very little courage to take any risk. Was able to reach maturity in near pristine condition by careful (timid) matchmaking and almost retired a relative coward but saw how many known fighters crossing a multitude of divisions or weight classes were moving up to challenge bigger men and finally was pushed to face a perceived threat in his own division in Lacy (at home - of course) or be labeled a punk. Definitely not an example of boxing greatness or one possessing the fortitude to willingly face all comers to test oneself in athletic competition. Joe had to be prodded into big matchups and his reluctance to do more exemplifies what he recognizes would have occurred if he had to face great challenges or challengers. Merely facing a few guys at the level of the past peak Eubank from '97 would have likely shortened his career by half as he never possessed the exceptional talent needed to avoid being hit cleanly or the power to beat real talent early. And so would have found himself in repeated, long, grueling career shortening types of wars lasting the distance. They didn't happen because of careful matchmaking and worthless endeavors and so he is held only in high regard by his most uncritical compatriots (desperately in need of a solitary hero) instead of being admired by the world for his factual willingness to put his shortcomings on the table and face his fears. Joe came to the US and made zero impression. If he came earlier, repeatedly, and tested himself he could have been a slightly better Arturo Gatti - lauded for his better than decent but not exceptional skills and the willingness to lay it on the line. Instead, he is a complete and utter nobody (except in his homeland). Simple as that. Fact. Struggled with bums, got dropped by old men. Rematched a stiff he had previously KO'd while never rematching the several fighters that gave him trouble or had been stopped by ridiculous early ref intervention. He valued sustaining a statistical "0" on the loss ledger over making a statement by facing adverse circumstances or giving the fans great contests between well matched combatants. If he had the "misfortune" to ply his craft in America roll he could have been Sheika basically. If he had more courage than evident - then perhaps Gatti. Either way he would have had a half dozen losses minimum - even in the environment of a multi-generational decline of interest and participation in boxing by the athletes within the US.
Great post and yes bailey is a boxrec troll, don't take him seriously at all. Great post. Cold hard facts. I do give him good credit for the Lacy & Kessler wins but he should've done much more than that. His resume is very weak and has no prime or near prime greats. He just wasn't eager to test himself so we'll never know how much he could've been if he had the willingness to test himself that guys such as Toney, Morales, & Barrera had.