Is Bob Fitzsimmons the greatest cruiserweight ever?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Boilermaker, Apr 17, 2011.


  1. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    There was no cruiserweight belt when bob Fitzsimmons fought, but if there was, there is no doubt that bob would have held it, because he was for a period of time the best cruiserweight in the world So, my question is where does he rank all time against cruiserweights. For arguments sake, i think we should keep the traditional 190 lb limit.

    Fitzsimmons has a variety of wins, but his best wins are Maher 2X, Sharkey (2X) and Corbett. His reign was lengthy and dominant. In fact, he was never beaten by a true cruiserweight.

    Looking at those with a claim to rank over him, we start with Corbett, who Fitz beat, which pretty much rules him out. Next up is langford. Langford probably has the best claim to beat him, but he had nowhere near the consistency of Fitz at the weight. For example, he lost to Gunboat Smith in a cruiserweight bout, Langford did have plenty of other great results in their, and for the most part, all his losses when he weighed or fought cruiser were to guys who themselves were over the limit. And it is hard to tell from boxrec at least just exactly when Langford himself qualified as a cruiser and when he was too heavy for the limit.

    Next up is probably Dempsey and Tunney. Dempsey had some great wins for a cruiserweight, but i am not sure that any of them can compare to Corbett, Sharkey and Maher much less Corbett. The closest to Corbett would be Tunney and that was a thrashing. In fairness, Dempsey did great against heavier opponents, but these were not within the cruiserlimit. He was also KOd in 1 round by Fireman Jim Flynn, another cruiserweight, which must affect his cruiserweight ranking.

    Tunney had Tommy gibbons and Jack Dempsey (X1) on his cruiserweight list, but really these two names are not enough, especially with Dempsey being so shot, even though it was a great performance. Ezzard Charles is definitely up there. He has Jimmy Bivins, Elmer Ray, Bob Satterfield and Joey Maxim and the two losses to Marciano. Good wins and definitely up there in quantity, but not quite the number of top notch wins that Fitz has.

    With Archie Moore and Ezzard Charles, The Rock definitely has a couple of wins up there in quality, but not the quantity. Evander also doesnt bring enough to the table.

    But i am interested in the serious thoughts from others. What other cruiserweights bring as much to the table as Bob Fitzsimmons and what would everybodies top 10 look like (based on quality of fighters beat in their own time) not head to head or assuming that what isnt videod isnt any good.
     
  2. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Actually there was: The term Cruiserweight was first used in Britain to describe the Light Heavyweight division.
     
  3. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Interesting.

    Towards the end of Jeffries reign there was actualy talk of the need for creating a 200lb division for the champion. If a fighter was over 200 they were ofthen described as being, "in the champions class".

    Of course as things turned out, there would not be another great heavyweight of Jeffries size until Sony Liston.

    If a 200lb division had been created back then, Fitzsimmons could have owned it. The creation of the light heavyweight division virtualy handed him a belt on a plate.
     
  4. Sonny Carson

    Sonny Carson Well-Known Member Full Member

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  5. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ezzard Charles, IMO, although the ol' Mongoose may disagree...
     
  6. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Which fighters did Evander beat, that you think compare to the guys that Fitzsimmons beat?
     
  7. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Beware, you cannot use the Dunkhorst win in this argument!
     
  8. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Interesting. But what year was this?

    The light heavyweight belt was not around when Fitzsimmons started fighting. Actually neither was the lightweight, welterweight, or any other belts outside the heavyweight championship. At least not as recognised world championships. All this pretty much makes you wonder just what Fitz could have achieved on a general pound for pound basis if the options were available. (or if we fully understood his resume, what he actually did achieve).
     
  9. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    There were all kinds of funny divisions in Britain before Fitz's career.
     
  10. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Mickey Walker?
     
  11. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Ezzard Charles beat better competition than Fitzsimmons. Let''s be real. Fitz never beat fighters as good as Jersey Joe Walcott and Archie Moore. Even a 1950 Joe Louis would have beaten all of fitz opposition except for corbett. You think little guys like sharkey maher, etc could take big Joe Louis? He would have jabbed them to death. How about his wins over Elmer Ray and Jimmy Bivins? They would have beaten almost all of fitz opposition. Charles also beat a **** ton of other top 10 heavyweight contenders.


    I would rate a lot of cruiserweights over Fitz...Dempsey, Louis, Langford, Marciano, Charles, Moore, Walcott, Sharkey, Schmeling, Tunney, Holyfield, Patterson, Corbett, Jackson, all rate over fitz, all would beat fitz, and all beat better competition than fitz.
     
  12. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    You can't use the Dunkhorst win in any argument. He was horrible.
     
  13. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Horible like Jameel McCline?

    He wasn't any great shakes but he beat some decent fighters.
     
  14. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Walcott never made the 190lb cruiserweight limit against Charles did he?:?
     
  15. JimmyShimmy

    JimmyShimmy 1050 psi Full Member

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    He was also a first class dancer, although this needs citation.