Johnson V Langford in 1909 ?

In 1909 Johnson was the heavyweight Champ after his December 1908 win over Burns,he had a busy year with 4 defences ,but the opposition was less than stellar.

Out of shape ,and, some say hungover, he failed to convince the crowd that he was emphatically the better man in a no dec 6 rounder with light hitting Jack O Brien , some gave it to Jack J ,some to Jack O. B. some couldn't care less, it was a stinker .
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As champ it was Jack's fault ,cynically coming in untrained and unfocused , knowing O Brien did not have the power to ko him ,which was the only way he could take the title.

Next, Jack took on the willing but crude Tony Ross, no problems there he did as he pleased , to take a dec, from the lumbering Ross.

Al Kaufmann a big guy ,and a good hitter was next in the chair ,but he lacked science and barely landed 3 worth while blows on the loafing Champ, who after putting Kaufmann in his place early ,contented himself with turning it into a sparring session.

The terrific hitting middleweight champ Stanley Ketchel was next , beefed up to just over 170lbs he was dwarfed by the Champion.
Depending on what story you beleive.

Johnson agreed to take it easy on Ketchel and to let him stay , for the sake of the film revenue.

Ketchel was staggered a couple of times whereupon, Johnson hastily claimed him and lifted him back onto his feet.

Stories have surfaced that the fight was rehearsed even down to the knockdown.

In any event, Ketchel either double crossed Johnson , saw an opening ,and let fly with his best , which hit Johnson ,on the ear, top of the head , wherever, Johnson dropped ,regained his footing ,and smashed a right uppercut into the charging Ketchel's mouth and kod him for several minutes.

The ko was at least bona fide.

The other scenario , which imo, the film appears to support, is that Johnson was falling before the overhand right even landed,he then decided that Stan was taking liberties and it was time to terminate hostilities, or that he had given Ketchel ,and the crowd enough rope and it was time to go home.

Whatever. none of the fights were exactly FOTC material.

Langford was also a busy boy in 1909.With 11 fights.

Sam was now 26 years old and had filled out a bit, though not completely, he was described as being only 15 lbs or so heavier than welter Dave Barry who held him to a draw,and lost a nws dec to him that year.

Morris Harris and John Wille presented no problems for Sam being tkod in 7,and 2 respectively.

Sam took a 6 rd dec from Al Kubiak.

Surprisingly Sam could only draw with Sandy Ferguson a man he had beaten a year before.

A lucrative trip to the UK, gave Sam his biggest ever purse, for a ko in 4 rds over England's Iron Hague, Sam kod Hague for several minutes ,but not before he took a clout early on that made him do a cartwheel.

Klondike was next on the menu, very much on the way out now ,he managed to go the 6 rds distance to lose a nws dec.
An over matched Dixie Kid was forced to retire against Sam after 5rds.
Klondike took another turn in the barrel now , and Sam must have been more impatient this time ,as he took out Haynes in the 2nd

An out of shape Mike Shreck conceded in the first rd ,to finish Langford's yearly games.
The point to my longwinded perambulation is.
IF Johnson had met Langford in 1909, and assuming that both were in top shape not a given for either man , who would have won?????????

This Guy?

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Or this Guy?

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Do you do so because Johnson was not in top shape ever again ,after the Jeffries fight?
Because Langford had matured further, and improved ?
Or ,a combination of both Janitor?

 

Yes I think Jack has to be in top shape ,and at his best to beat the best of Sam ,after Reno he wasn't. 1910, the last year Jack was in top shape.

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Yet in.
11 fights with Light Heavyweight Jeff Clark ,which included 2, 15rounders and 6, 10 rounders,4 of which were draws and one of which Clark won .
Langford was only able to stop Clark once ,and that was in a 16foot ring that Langford had insisted on. Clark was stopped 15 times.
In 14 fights with Joe Jeannette ,Langford only stopped Jeannette once,and these included 1 ,20 rounder,,2 ,15rounders,5, 12 rounders,ad 3 10 rounders,Langford drew in 3 of these fights and was stopped himself in another.
In 13 fights with Sam McVey ,including 6 ,20rounders,2 ,12 rounders,and 4 ,10rounders Langford only stopped McVey once and that was a dsq.
Note ,5 of these were draws and one was a ko loss.
I beleive Johnson's defence was at least as good as those mentioned , and in 1909 Langford is not stopping him in 15 rds, or 20 for that matter.imo.

 

Langford had over 50 fights when he fought Johnson ,considerably more than Jack.
Johnson scaled 168lbs 8 months prior to his fight with Choynski in`1901, it is likely there was no discernable difference in weight between Choynski and Johnson,both would have been inside the Light Heavy limit.1909 is 8 years later and, by now Johnson ,in title defences was scaling between 205 and 209lbs,anyone who thinks the Choynski result is a reliable yardstick as to how Johnson, 8 years older,over 30lbs heavier ,and 52 more fights wiser , would perform in 1909 is living in cuckoo land.