Could Liston Have Gotten Up From The Leotis Martin Knockdown?

Maybe he hangs in there awhile but not for long. Ultimately, I think it looks like the Ellis fight and a brutal ko by Smoking Joe. For some reason, not many folks seem to acknowledge the title fights Joe had prior to the Ali bout. He had a ton of them and w/o that championship experience I don't think he beats Ali.

But Smoking Joe prior to 71 was a machine and a very formidable guy in there. The Yank Durham version. That left hook sizzled and was a lot faster than ever given credit for. Lots of people thru the years have talked about the Leotis Martin chances if the bout had come of, but I just didn't think so then and do not think so now. Heavyweights coming off physical damage and a very tough physical fight do not need to be facing a 70 Frazier. They need a soft type non-puncher and not a thrashing machine. You'd better have a top notch defense and that's one thing Martin did not have in his toolset. Nope, he was hittable like a Quarry. Not a trait to have facing Frazier back then.

I don't think Martin beats Bonavena or Chuvalo either in 1970. Jimmy Ellis and Patterson and Quarry are very tough fights for him as well. Lets put it this way, if Martin faces the above names, he goes what 1-5 or 2-4? 0-6 is more realistic than .500 even.

Not to take away from Martin. That was a huge win for him over a guy like Liston. Incredible. But after watching that version of Sonny in there, that version had zero chance against Frazier in 69 or 70 if Martin hadn't ko'd him. He'd have likely been ko'd similarly against Frazier.

 

Could the Titanic made it across the Atlantic Ocean after hitting the iceberg?

Liston was out like a light. While he was older, this does make me wonder a bit his chin ( Which I think was pretty good ), because KO's like this normally do not happen to durable types. More like the Roy Jones types.

 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kz2NLe-naqU[/ame]

 

He fought Bonavena and lost. Good fight.

 

Watched the fight that night in 1969 on WWOS....Lisaton got hit a good shot...good night Irene...

 

Another obvious Liston fix.

 

Very plausible conclusion. The fact remains that Sonny utterly dominated Leotis prior to round eight. Cosell mentioned that the left hook Liston dropped him with late in round four "was overdue." We certainly know Smoke wouldn't have taken so much time to unload his, and Martin would have been in very serious trouble once staggered.

This is why I think Leotis may have atypically started off like JQ did on Frazier earlier that year, pitching from the opening bell. But Joe fired off 64 punches of his own at Jerry in those first three minutes, and he started the year by blowing out Ziggy. 1968-1969 Frazier did not always match the image of a slow starter I feel he's unfairly been saddled with over the years. Leotis was never going to be an HOFer. The version of Smoke he wanted to take on after Liston may well have been a top five AT HW.