Come one Classic... lets end this (heated) debate... Holyfield - Lewis?

The quality of Holyfield's wins aren't attributed to the opponents "being old." Foreman was 42 but had been an incredible 24-0 in his comeback, with all but one ending inside the distance. The Foreman that fought Holyfield was the best he ever would be post Ali, and Holyfield took him apart and beat him convincingly.

Yes, Holmes was 42. But like Foreman he was unbeaten in his comeback with a record of 6-0 which included his masterclass versus the then unbeaten Ray Mercer in the fight previous to Holyfield. While Holmes stole a few rounds, Holyfield was the dominant one throughout and won a clear decision.

Bowe wasn't old. He was the undefeated reigning lineal Heavyweight Champion and 26 years old.

Moorer definitely wasn't "shot" for his rematch with Evander. A trifle heavy but definitely not shot. It's not a bad fight to watch either btw, Moorer really shakes him up at one point :good

Michael Dokes put on the performance of his career against Holyfield, a few years past his physical prime or not. Holyfield stopped him.

Douglas was pudgy and undertrained but had just came off one of the greatest in boxing history. Douglas showed nothing in the early rounds that to me indicate that he would of done much better even if he was in Tokyo shape.

Plus you have Ruiz, Rahman, Alex Stewart, Cooper, Mercer, Rahman etc.
That being said, Lewis also beat a shitload of good fighters. His win over Holyfield is probably at least on par with any win on Holyfield's own and then you have names like Golota, Ruddock, Tua etc. THAT being said, I just think too many of Holyfield's wins get brushed off in my opinion and it irritates me a little Holyfield had a great career.

 

Bowe v Holyfield 1 is a great heavyweight fight.
Bowe showed a lot of ability in that fight and won it clearly.
Bowe was very good.

 

I certainly agree with that but then I get into the problem where historically ranking heavyweight champions, I have to count cruiserweight exploits if any since that division's beginning. :?

 

I think Evander is underrated for dominance , particularly if he's to be compared to Lewis.

Lennox's entire career was 14 years long, and he suffered losses to McCall and Rahman, avenging both. Holyfield's first 14 years he was only beaten by two men as well, Bowe and Moorer, and has wins over both. I'd say he probably beat better men during that stretch as well.

I've got Ali and Louis as the top 2, and Tyson, Jeffries, Wills, and Dempsey at 11-14, and then that big group of 8 guys ranked in between that I feel are mostly interchangeable, which includes Lewis and Holyfield. Honestly, I feel its perfectly justifiable to have either one as high as #3 or as low as #10.

 

Holyfield has too many losses that you just can't ignore, even putting the later career ones to the side he did still lose to Bowe twice and Moorer. His fans talk up his win over Bowe but the fact that he lost the trilogy 2-1 seems to be brushed under the carpet.

Lewis beat him (+ that ridiculous draw beforehand). Don't really buy the whole Holyfield was old stuff- age gap with Lewis is only about 3 years isn't it?

Holyfield sorting Tyson out was huge but going 1-1-1 with Ruiz is nothing to write home about. I think thats the problem with his career; some great achievements but too many disappointments/losses to go alongside them.

The depth of Lewis' resume and the fact that he beat him H2H is enough to put him ahead of Holyfield for me.

 

Would you rather lose to Bowe and Moorer or McCall and Rahman? Or Buster Douglas? For some reason Holyfield doesn't get the same benefits as Tyson and Lewis.

 

Holyfield looks in slow motion compared to the Holy that fought Douglas, Foreman, etc.

Fighters age differently.

 

Even if that were so, Lewis didn't fight him in 94-96.

 

Lewis gets panned for his 2 loses- he hardly gets a pass for them does he?

Also depends on how you view the losses- take the Rahman one for Lewis: hugely embaressing unexpected loss but it was 1 big knock out punch. It happens, esp. at heavyweight. Whereas Holyfield was out boxed/fought in the fights that he lost (Bowe x2, Moorer, Lewis) which IMO is worse, when judging a boxer's abilities, than a shock KO.

Can also throw Lewis avenging his 2 defeats into it as well.

Happen to rate Holyfield above Tyson though so won't go into Buster Douglas and all that.

 

Considering he's typically seen inside the top 5 or even 3, I'd say he's given much more of one than Holyfield.

The first Rahman fight wasn't just "one big knockout punch." Obviously one punch ended it but Rahman was giving him trouble and was coming close to landing that shot all night, and eventually he did. Lewis wasn't schooling him. Lennox's lack of Holyfield like durability shouldn't help him is what I'm saying. [/quote]

Holyfield avenged both the Moorer and Bowe defeats. A double standard is present around here for Holy.

 

Holyfield avenged both the Moorer and Bowe defeats. A double standard is present around here for Holy.[/quote]

Take your point about the first Rahman fight i guess, Lewis was poor that night but wasn't being particularly out boxed before the KO and was only 5 rounds in when it happened.

Holyfield didn't avenge his 2nd loss to Bowe or his defeat to Lewis, or Ruiz, or any of the later ones though...

 

bowe was thirty pounds heavier. that triology only reflects well on holyfield.

different career curves.

getting on for a decade past his prime.

 

Take your point about the first Rahman fight i guess, Lewis was poor that night but wasn't being particularly out boxed before the KO and was only 5 rounds in when it happened.

Holyfield didn't avenge his 2nd loss to Bowe or his defeat to Lewis, or Ruiz, or any of the later ones though...[/quote]

The thing is though, Lewis was retired at the same age Holy wAs losing to Ruiz.

No, Lewis wasn't getting dominated by Rahman prior to the stoppage but the fact of the matter is that Rahman was having success throughout and had a gameplan which eventually worked.

 

:good

 

Lewis by a mile. Evander's actual record at heavyweight, though chock full of big names, is very spotty. I'm not willing to let him off for some of those losses, regardless of his lack of size or whatever excuse he had at the time. Lewis was much more consistent and was a dominant champion.