The Godfather of Australian Boxing

The Godfather of Australian Boxing.

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Laurence “Larry” Foley was born on the 12th of December 1849 in the mining town of Sofala on the outskirts of Bathurst, legend has it that locals struck gold within hours of young Foley’s birth and celebrations were held for their new found wealth and the good fortune the child had brought the town. At the age of 14 Larry followed his life long mentor Father O’Connell to Wollongong to prepare for a lifetime service in the Catholic priesthood, as well as general education O’Connell also taught Foley life skills, responsibility and basic pugilism. But at the age of 18 Foley decided that a life in the priesthood is not where his future lay and with the blessing from his friend/mentor moved to Sydney and began working as a labourer on construction sites.

Whilst in Sydney Foley became the leader of his own larrikin gang (known as “Pushes”) called the Paddington Boys. It was an unprovoked attack on two of his members that began Foley’s road to infamy. He openly challenged Sandy Ross leader of the largest gang in Sydney known the Rock’s Push. Ross accepted and under the watchful eye of The Fancy* a bout between the two was organised under the London Prize Ring rules to settle the dispute and soon it became known as the battle of the Orange and the Green, with Foley representing the Irish Catholic (green) and Ross the Irish Protestant (orange). The bout lasted 71 rounds** (I’ve also heard it was 140 rounds) which Foley convincingly won from start to finish, with fast footwork and hands Foley seemed to batter Ross at will, the only resort Ross could come to was to try to corner and manhandle Foley if he could catch him. Police raided the event after the 71st round, so the official verdict of the bout was a draw, but it is believed Foley could have finished the fight at any stage but rather chose to continue punishing Ross in to the latter rounds.

Foley spent the next few years travelling through mining towns, trying his luck at goldmining, but making a tidy living out of local Prize Ring events, often dropping men much larger than himself and a reputation that followed as stories of Foley’s conquests travelled to The Fancy’s ears as people filtered in from the west. Upon his return to Sydney and very much with The Fancy in his favour he continued to prize fight and was eventually able to open his own establishment called the White Horse Hotel.

Eventually Foley built a boxing ring/ venue out the back the White Horse where he trained fighters and held local exhibition matches under the Marquee of Queensberry rules***. It was a handfull of his protégé’s from this stable that proved to be from the top echelon of boxers from this era. Jackson, Fitzsimmons, Slavin and Griffo.


It was this man, although many years ago, that had Australian boxers as the most feared in the world. Sadly he’s not remembered as prominently as his successors.


*The Fancy were an underground organisation of wealthy businessmen who would regulate and finance fighters in the then illegal practice of Prize Ring Fights.

**Prize Ring rounds had no time limit, rather a round ended when one of the fighters was knocked down or out.

***Marquee of Queensbury Rules helped legalise boxing. It brought in the use of boxing gloves and 3 minute rounds with 1 minute breaks in between. It was the basic foundation of boxing as we know it today.

Bugger.

 

Thanks mate. We definately have a great history, great stories, great characters and its great when you see guys like Katsidis carrying the old flame of Australian boxing.

Much better than my "Will O The Wimp"

Thanks mate. Forgot to mention the Hicken fight but oh well.

A quick question mate:

At times there seems to be a belief (which i personally dont agree with) that Mace taught Foley everything about the science of boxing. Looking at Foley and the stable of fighters he produced, was wondering if any fighters from the Mace Academy in Melbourne had similar sort of success?

 

THE ORANGE AND THE GREEN


LARRY FOLEY'S. GREAT FIGHT WITH SANDY ROSS.


Wednesday 1st August 1917
(By One Who Was There.) ,


I have read in "The Miner" lately a good deal about the pugilistic career of Larry Foley. But no one as yet has made any mention to that 140 rounds fight at Cook's River between Foley and Sandy Ross. I hear that the place is called Como now. It was only known to us youngsters in those days of long ago as Cook's River. Perhaps a description of the cause that led up to the fight and its consequences may be interesting after so many years by one who was there.


A sparring benefit was being got up for Sandy Ross, and Larry Foley, being known as a good sparrer, was asked if he would assist as he would be considered a good draw by "the Mickeys,' as the Orangemen called the Irish at that time. Foley good-naturedly promised to attend and spar with Ross. Ross shortly afterwards got blowing to his friends that he would make a holy show of "the Fenian" That was what they (the Orangemen) used to call Foley when he was not listening". But some of Ross' friends could not hold their tongues, and Foley got to hear of it. He then refused point blank to assist at the benefit. This led to a lot of nasty talk, and Foley was accused of being a coward and not game to face the Orangeman. It was rumoured that ; Ross boasted that he would give Foley a good hiding the first time he got a chance. A Mr. Austin, who kept a public house and blacksmith and wheelwright business in Parramatta, heard of Ross' boasting and offered to back Foley for £100 to fight Ross, bare knuckles.
This was jumped at by the Orangemen but they would not put up the money, preferring to wait till they got to the ringside. It then turned into a fight for the supremacy of the colours- the orange and the green. Any betting was to be done at the ringside.


It was reported that the fight was to take place somewhere near the Blue Post public house on Cook's River. We youngsters got to hear of it from Jim Austin. I and another boy made up our minds to see it. I lived at Newtown then and the night before the fight I and a couple more youngsters started out at about 10.30 to walk to the Blue Post Hotel. We got there at between l am and 2 am. We were expecting to see a crowd of people there, but instead of that five or six mounted constables came up. They seemed half drunk, for they started waddying everyone they could see. I got one blow with a waddy across the jaw. I ran around behind the chimney, where I picked up half a brick. Just as I was going to let the bobby have it right in the face my mate caught my arm. I would have made a pretty picture of him, for I was in the shade of the chimney and he was in the full light of the lamp that burned feebly in front of the public house and I had a full view of him, as he was only about three yards away from me.


It was a pitch dark night and the way that the police chased the people about as they arrived separated mates, so that it was hard to find one another again. I never again saw my mates after the police chased us the second time. It was all virgin country and bush there at that time. No one that I asked knew where the fight was going to come off, nor had they seen any or the fighters about. Just at peep of day I noticed a woman come out of a hut about 400 yards further down the road from the pub. Followed by four men, she ran across the road and took a bush track leading down to the banks of Cook’s River. The river there is about a mile down from the road. I followed them behind, dodging from one tree to another; without them seeing me; although they looked back a good many times, as the police were following every three or four, people that they saw going in any one direction. The police were determined to arrest either Foley or Ross and to stop the fight.


As those I was following got close to the river banks, I spotted a boat there in waiting. I then came up with those that I had been following, showed myself and got into the boat before the last of the others got in. It cost me a shilling, but the others had to pay two shillings. The boat had only got 40 or 50 yards away when the police came in sight, and called on the boatmen to come back. He stood up in his boat and turned his back towards them, and rowed us over the river without altering his position. He landed us where the fight was to come off.


There were about 30 or 40 people already there and a ring was being formed on a nice piece of level green soil. The boat was detained and the boatman was told that if he attempted to go back he would be followed and sunk. There were also a couple of other boats detained. The police were calling on the boatman to go back, but he did not get a chance to do so neither was he willing. The next boat that came over from a point lower down the river brought Ross. But there was no sign of Foley. No-one knew where he was, as the police had been chasing the people about so all night that they lost one another in the darkness and did not meet again. After waiting about-half an hour after Ross's arrival, people began to look up and down the river for Foley. But there was no sign of him. They then, began to think that he had either caved in or that the police had got him. Ross then commenced to do a lot of bragging. He called Foley a damn Fenian and reckoned that he only wanted 20 minutes in which to dish him up. But he was afraid that the damn Fenian would not give him a chance; and it was only what he expected that the Fenian would disappoint him again, as he did at the Benefit meeting. Suddenly someone said "Hello, here comes a boat; I wonder if it's police in disguise." This place was about a mile or more lower down the river than where I got in and near where Ross came across from. Everyone was getting ready to clear out. I was the only kiddie there, and I made off as soon as I heard them speak of police (for I knew what to expect from them) so that I had a quarter of a mile start, when someone spotted Foley in the boat. I came back and found everyone all smiles, Ross included. Now everyone was satisfied that there was going to be a fight. The trouble did not end here, for though Foley and a few friends landed, Austin was nowhere to be seen. Austin was to be Foley's principal man and backer. Ross, seeing this did a lot more bragging and swearing, blaming Austin this time for making a put-up job on him. He also became abusive of Foley and wanted to know where Austin was and the 100 pounds that he said he was willing to back Foley. Larry quickly answered “I don't know”. A reply that made Ross laugh. Some of Ross's friends seemed annoyed too for it was said that they had brought money with them, intending to back Ross at the ringside. Not one of the men that were appointed Foley's seconds put in an appearance and there was no prospect, of them getting to the fighting ground as no boat was allowed to return.


I must here explain why Austin did not put in an appearance. Austin was to follow Foley who left for the place appointed for the fight early in the night so that Larry could have a few hours rest. But some time after Foley and a few friends had left a policeman, who was said to be a friend of Austin's told him that if he attended or in any way assisted at the fight, an effort would be made to get his license cancelled. (The law was more strict with regard to prize fighting in those days than it is now) Austin did not like running the risk of losing his license, and a party was sent out after Foley, but owing to the way that the police were hunting people about they never met Foley. The party expected to meet Foley at the BluePost pub at Cook's River, but if either Foley or Ross had been there they would have been arrested. Now this will show that there was no bluff about Foley and how willing he was to let this Orangeman make mincemeat of the Fenian in 20 minutes. “Only 20 minutes and it’ll all be over” so Ross said and his friends laughed.

 

When Foley landed he did not meet a single one of his supporters that he expected to meet. There was no towel, nor bottle for him to have a drink out of (for fighters generally have some sort of mixture to sip at now and again). Not one man in a thousand would have had the heart to still consent to fight. Anyhow the Fenian was not going to disappoint the Orangeman. After some talk between Ross and his friends that I did not hear, as I could not get near enough, arrangements were made for the fight to come off.


Foley came over to where I was sitting on a log. He recognised me (for I knew him) and spoke to me and asked me what I thought of the business. I said, - "It's bad .business Larry" at which he laughed. But I could see it was a forced laugh, for the man must have felt hurt to find himself in such a .position. Anyhow a man named Kelly of. "The Rocks" in Sydney, and another named Jackson a butcher, consented to act as seconds for Foley. A man named Sparks and another whose name I did not hear acted as seconds for Ross while a man from Melbourne called Carstairs acted as umpire and bottle-holder. Now, Foley had no towel or bottle to hold, but as Ross was so eager to get at “this Fenian” he offered to give Foley a share of the contents of his bottle, but nothing could be found to put it in, so it was agreed that both men drink out of the same bottle, which they did. They tossed for corners and .Ross won. He picked a corner so that the sun shone on his back and right into Foley's face- a great disadvantage. . .But a few willing hands soon pulled down some bushy saplings and. built a sort of shed over him.


The usual preliminaries having been gone through, the long-wished-for fight started. Ross started off very quickly and lively. He went mostly for Foley's jaw, where he raised a large lump and Foley seemed to have two heads instead of one. Foley went mostly for the ribs on the left side and the two blows could be heard almost on top of one another. Foley also raised a large swelling down Ross’ left side. After the skin had stretched to its utmost the swelling burst and it looked as if it had been tattooed with a knife and so did the swelling on Foley's jaw. I am sure this must have given great relief to both men.


Foley was getting it pretty hot and I heard Kelly ask Foley what he thought of it, Foley- said “Do not take me out of the ring until I am carried out.” Ross eased down a bit for he seemed to think that he had a harder job in hand that he expected. Foley seemed to improve as the fight went on after the first 20 rounds and he let Ross know it for the next 20 rounds. Then Ross rallied again and for the next 20 rounds he had the best of it. Then Foley’s turn-came-again and Ross knew he was there for the next 20 rounds after which Ross improved for another 20 rounds and so it went on, turn about, up to 100 rounds. Ross was getting beaten, but Foley was also very weak, or he could have finished Ross with one or two good blows. Foley first walked up and knocked Ross down. It was only the bragging that he had been doing before the fight commenced that prevented Ross from stopping. .


Carstairs, seeing this came into the middle of the ring, stood between the two men and said “It's a pity to see two such men putting up such a good fight for nothing but the. Orange and the Green.” He asked Foley if he was willing to make it a draw, and Foley said, "I came into this ring to win or die and I will do one or the other before I leave it." Foley had to follow Ross all over the ring after this for the next 20 rounds, and whenever he got a blow at Ross, down went Ross. Ross was not able to inflict any punishment on Foley. The fight finished by Carstairs calling time. Ross walked up to the centre of the ring with Carstairs by his side and followed by his seconds. He held out his hand to Foley and said “I give you best Larry”. I did not see any towels flung in they were things that were very scarce. Foley had none. '


It was not until about between 40 and 50 rounds had been fought, that the time of the rounds shortened. Up to that they seemed to last about the usual three or four minutes .allowed. After that the seconds used to rush from their corners and pick their man up as soon as he was knocked down. There never was a man born who could stand the terrible punching for 140 rounds that those men gave each other in the first 40 rounds there would be nothing left of them but a lump of jelly. Both men were very determined and went at each other like wild bulls.


I remember an incident that happened in about the 34th or 35th round. Ross made a great blow at Foley, but his foot slipped on the grassland he went past Foley with the whole side of his face exposed. Foley saw this and made a terrible blow at Ross's ear with the whole weight of his body behind it. But just as he was .about to get it home Ross's foot supped again, and Foley struck one of the posts of the ring, which were of white gum, and knocked a piece of the bark off, about 10 inches long and 5 inches wide in the widest place. Foley’s hand dropped by his side and I could see it trembling. I heard some of Foley's supporters who were standing beside me say, “I am glad he missed that one, for the lot of us would be in Darlinghurst and Ross in the cemetery.” After that Foley had to do most of the fighting with one hand using the other only as a guard, and giving a light jab now and again. The subsequent fight goes to prove the truth of the remark, “Foley soon dished up Ross when he was able to use both hands to fight with.”


Foley, after a wash and a short rest, left with 10 others for Sydney by a bus that was waiting. It was reported that Ross stopped at the Blue Post for a week. The Fenians (as the Irishmen were called at that time) set Foley up in a tobacconist’s shop in George-street, and the Orangemen bought Ross a new cab for he was a cabdriver. Ross had another try at Foley, which I did not see, but I was told that Ross was only something to practise on the second time.

 

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Larry Foley (left) and Jack Thompson

 

AN EX-CHAMPION'S VIEWS,
LARRY FOLEY INTERVIEWED.

Wednesday 30th December 1908


One of the onlookers at the ringside in the Stadium was Mr. Larry Foley, a champion heavy-weight of some years ago, and the instructor of many of the best boxers the world has seen Mr. Foley was interviewed after the fight was over. "Well, you saw it" he said, "and what can you say, except that it was all one-sided? Burns was not strong enough, was not big enough, was not clover enough. He had not a hope. He is a good natural fighter, you see and he is not very clever. Yes, that's right. He beat Squires and Lang and Roche and Moir and the others, but if you could do a hundred yards in twelve seconds, and all the other men you had to race could only do it in fourteen seconds, you'd look like a champion sprinter, you see, but what would you look like when a man who could do it in evens-in ten seconds-came along? Well he would make you look slow wouldn’t he? Burns met his ten seconds man today and we found that Tommy was only a twelve seconds. That's it, all right. He is a good middleweight. I won't even say that he is a champion middleweight. He's a good, plucky, natural fighter, with a hard hit and some good foot work but he is not in the same class as Johnson, who has length, weight, reach, strength, cleverness, and brains. You don't want much more, you see.
"It was the worst championship fight I've ever seen, and I have seen a good few" Mr Foley went on "Burns never laid a finger on Johnson. You might say the big fellow was too clever, too wise. But Tommy showed great pluck. He took punishment like a man, all right. It's funny that a fighter as poor as Tommy could have ever been champion of the world. He struck a barren spot in the history of boxing, when there weren't many good men about and he had the luck, or the good sense, to miss Johnson up to now, you see. Johnson in my opinion, will hold the championship for a good while, until someone a bit better than himself crops up. Jeffries? Yes. perhaps. Well, that's all about it. You don't need to know about fighting to see that Tommy was beaten out of sight. That first hit in the first round ended it all, as far as he was concerned, and Johnson could have hit him out any time he wanted to."

 

Very much so CHB. Roy Shaw in England was well known in the underground as the king of these unlicenced boxing matches in the 70's. Usually the match ups consisted of well known underground figures and stand over men.


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Closer to organised street fights or thuggery than actual boxing as we know it. Although i've not heard any accounts from over here of such organisations im sure they have existed on some level.