So Fitzsimmons gets destroyed 2x by Jeffries yet he has a shot vs Louis and Marciano?

NO FIGHT FILM OF JEFFRIES SHOWS HIM TO BE QUICK IN ATTACK
Jesus Christ I underlined it. ACTUAL FIGHT FILM. HOW THICK ARE YOU ?
I said Johnson did not actually fight the way he appears in training and he did not, every one and his Granny knows it except you . We have little fight footage of Jeffries, but what we do have ,does NOT show him to be speedy in attack, either of hand or foot. Even you should be able to grasp this.
It would not matter what speed the Ruhlin fight was because Ruhlin is clearly the faster man afoot ,and he is going backwards.They are both filmed at the same speed are they not?atsch
Don't **** up this thread with your hate.

 

There's a good chance that it was a fix.

 

Mcvey, Simple question for you, and lord knows is not easy to pin you down for something. Do you think Jeffries was quick with his hand or feet? Yes or No?

 

It's very easy to pin me down as I have very definite views, and am not shy in expressing them.
Jeffries was the first quick big man ,thats why such a big deal has been made of his speed imo.Compared to many of the lumbering oafs of his time he was quick ,but he does not look any quicker to me than Johnson in training, and, he looks slower than Burns in actual combat ,slower of both hand and foot.

He looks slower afoot than Ruhlin and no quicker with his hands than the oncoming Sharkey.

Jeffries won his big fights by outlasting, and wearing down his older smaller opponents, he had a top chin ,great physical courage ,[I think he was rather fragile mentally ],and held the advantage of being bigger stronger and younger than his top opponents,two of who were coming out of long retirements.
That's my honest opinion ,today Jeffries would be average .Does he look any quicker than this bloated ,old fat Jack Johnson ?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CccJZlUp0rM[/ame]

 

Without seeing a decent amount of footage it would be foolish to choose winner although we can see on film though that Harold Johnson looks far more skilled than Corbett because there are technical faults Corbett makes

Nearly any man can be can be knocked out in 1 round, especially a much smaller man in with ATG punchers

Fitz is smaller/weaker than Moore, he doesn't seem to, I can never see Moore being outboxed for round upon round by a 180lb none punching boxer mover like Corbett. Moore's era also seemed to have a much deeper talent pool, it seemed to be an era, an era where the sport was more established because the money in the sport had grown and competition grew

 

notice: 'thin legs tend to indicate weak chin/durability' - Saddler being naturally strong is an exception as is Arguello, these men despite having thin legs likely have strong legs. Generally weak legs/lower back = weak durability and that's why Hearns/Wlad durability isn't too good

No power doesn't just come from the upperbody, its more a whole body motion, what you're describing is an arm punch and few bar Julian Jackson generate much power that way. Someone who can swing through with their hips, sit on their punches or get their legs into their uppercut will be a bigger puncher. Punchers come in all shapes and sizes because its a whole body movement

 

Good, perceptive ,and explanatory post.

 

Funny stuff. Jeffries the first fast big man? I guess Peter Jackson, Slavin, and Sullivan were slow then. If you mean over 215 pound, then take note Corbett who fought the best in his time felt Jeffries had great hand speed. In his day, Jeffries ran the 100 yard dash in 10.5 seconds, which would have been good enough to win gold in the 1896 Olympics.

You use 2 old grainy films, both of which runs slow, and one when Jeffries had an injury to judge his speed?

In Jeffries training film which is filmed close and is much clearer than the Sharkey and Ruhlin flims, a legally blind man can see he had marvelous hand speed, foot speed, coordination, to reflexes, flexibility, and strength.:deal See below, and keep in mind this clip cuts out some of the best stuff in the workout

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CauVMvNspIY[/ame]

If you think Jeffires would be average today, then Johnson would not be much better.

I could show you fight reports that said Jeffries was a lively on his feet as a lightweight, but it matters not. Your mind is made up on this topic.

Jeffires is the lone old time pre 1960 that had heavyweight that had size, power, speed, durability, and athleticism all in one. Oh sure he would be " average " today. Give him a modern trainer. He has the tools. Its not like he was Ko'd, floored, and boxed to a stand still by supper middles ya know Nor did he draw with journeyman, avoid the top 3-4 talents when he was champion, or quit in fights. Jeffries career needs no excuses.

 

I'm not saying he wasn't all that, but what is shown in the training footage you will find any remotely decent heavyweight capable of.

 

You turn every discussion into Jeffries V Johnson. How fast a man runs has absolutely no bearing on his foot speed in a ring ,Ali was an abysmal sprinter.A thread has allready been explored on this subject.
I used the only films of Jeffries in actual fights that are available.
It matters not what speed they are shown in, because we have the speed of his opponent for comparison.And films of Jeffries skipping and sparring with his useless brother Jack, prove Jack ****,especially as they are also not shown at the correct speed .
I've seen this clip a hundred times, and something you haven't ,a re-enactment of the Jeffries v Fitz second battle with both the real fighters .
I understand fully that you hero worship Jeffries,no problem, there are worse heroes, but you take it to absurd lengths.
Corbett stated that Jack Johnson was the greatest boxer he ever saw,so don't go quoting Corbett,it will rebound on you.
Frank Paddy Slavin was a strong ,rough customer with a fiery temper and in later life [like Jackson an alcoholic], he was also a racist ,what he was not ,was speedy or scientific.
He scaled 185 lbs when he fought 195lb Jackson in Covent Garden, where I had a drink yesterday.
I repeat Jeffries was the first quick big man.
Not as quick as Corbett,Jackson we don't know about ,Slavin we do.None of them were 200+ pounders.
Your opinion of Johnson is in direct contrast to that of the late Eddie Futch ,who rated him in the top three heavyweights of all time.
Personally i find him interesting as a man, but rather boring to watch as a fighter I much prefer Dempsey.
If you wish to continue start a different thread ,and leave this one for its original purpose.

 

You waste my time, Mcvey, If Jeffries were black, maybe you and I could agree on something.

Before you said you rely on testimonials. For example, Choynski was the hardest hitter in that time line. Yet when I could post numerous testimonials that say Jeffries was fast handed, or hit hard you ignore them? When I post clear film of Jeffries moving around holding dumbellls & showing good agility, you ignore it! Your agenda stinks like a ***** house at low tide. No need to reply, well save the rest of the disk space here for Fitzsimmons....

 

Not sure if I agree with that, as even some of the best heavies do nto duck punches, or pull back as quickly. Few heavies jump rope was impressively.

The extended footage is much longer than the you tube clip. It shows Jeffries lifting weights, Jeffries doing flexibility exercises which show him being able to easily bend down and touch his toes, extensive jump rope work, and medicine ball work. Watch it on a larger screen, and its impressive.

I have seen a rare film if Jeffries hitting a heavy bag. He looks a bit like Liston, but with more speed. Its true must see. One day it might make its way to you tube.

 

Fitzsimmons perfectly married numbing power with great trickery; something of a sneaky Thomas Hearn's except with more of a wallop.

Marciano and Louis, with their added weight, general toughness and power of their own would likely overcome Fitzsimmons as time passed, but Bob could floor both of them, and hard. It's not out the question that he could cause an upset; his style was very deceptive, dangerous to interrogate; Marciano may have the toughest ride.