So Fitzsimmons gets destroyed 2x by Jeffries yet he has a shot vs Louis and Marciano?

I'm glad this is brought up because it allows me to clear up some misunderstandings about Tom Sharkey and put forth some things I've learned about him from doing extensive research on his career. I think it's safe to say most people on this forum have good knowledge of Rocky's career, but how many can honestly say that they know about Sharkey's other than the face value stuff? Marciano is much more accessible to us because he is a more contemporary fighter, thus much more has been written on him and we have tons of film. We have one grainy film of Sharkey and newspaper archives.

So indulge me for a moment if you will.

Give and take styles guarantee in most cases that the fighter will have a short shelf-life and Sharkey was no different. By the time he fought Jeffries the second time he had been in many brutal wars, the kind that take a lot out of you. If one reads the newspapers of the day regarding Sharkey there were three things that were unanimously agreed upon by everyone, both when he was fighting and in reflecting on his career shortly after:

1. He was as strong as an ox and could hit like a ton of bricks.

2. He had a caste iron chin.

3. He was NEVER the same after that second Jeffries fight. It took everything out of him and afterward he was a shell of his former self.

You mention the Ruhlin KOs. But if you go read the accounts of those fights you will see that the outcomes were a surprise to everyone. First off because Sharkey was stopped (something even the more formidable punchers he faced- like Jeffries, Maher, Choynski, etc- couldn't do) and second because he had "gone back" to such a huge degree. The fact that Sharkey easily dispatched Ruhlin within a round in their first fight is indicative that there truly was a pre-Jeffries Tom Sharkey and a post-Jeffries Tom Sharkey. Gus Ruhlin was a good contender but nobody put him in Sharkey's class prime for prime. This includes all of their common opponents as well as the sportswriters.

If Rocky Marciano got slammed around by Jim Jeffries for 45 rounds in two fights then perhaps you would also have seen the effects against subsequent opponents.

The Kid McCoy fight is another that cannot be taken at face value. The Sharkey camp made the disastrous decision of hiring Tommy Ryan to train Tom for this fight, thinking that it would be a good idea for the former great to instill some tricky boxing into Tom's repertoire as he did for Jeffries. Sharkey was no boxer and it showed. He went out and tried to beat McCoy at his own game, which was ridiculous. McCoy smacked and punched him silly. Tom O'Rourke was so incensed that he charged into Sharkey's corner after the third round and pretty much took over from there, almost coming to blows with Ryan over how the ex-champ was instructing Sharkey. If you read any blow by blow report of the fight you will see that it is after the third round that Sharkey started taking McCoy apart.

Why was Sharkey, who took the blows of Jeffries for 45 total rounds, floored twice and stunned by McCoy? Well, it's just one of those things in boxing. I liken it to Oscar Bonavena being able to slug it out 10 and 25 rounds with bangers like Ron Lyle and Joe Frazier and then get floored twice and stung badly by Jimmy Ellis, who was nowhere near as strong as Ron or Joe and a much lighter puncher. Nobody would deny that Oscar had an iron chin. But it's still hard to explain. Don't forget that McCoy was considered to be a pretty deadly hitter in his day(65 knockouts in 86 wins) and proved that he could KO heavyweights with his punch. It was just a couple of perfectly timed punches. Sharkey lunged, McCoy sidestepped beautifully and cracked him from the side(Tom bounced right up immediately both times and continued to fight hard). The kind of punches that you don't see are the ones that hurt, especially from a whacker like McCoy. Also remember that he had already been beating Tom's head like a drum for almost three full rounds without any serious damage done in return. It was target practice until Tom finally woke up and started to fight HIS fight. You will note that McCoy did not floor or seriously hurt Sharkey any time after that despite having 7 more rounds in which to do so.

Marciano's chin is absolutely NOT on a different level. He fought nowhere near the level of powerpunchers that Sharkey fought. 45 rounds with Jeffries, plus Bob Fitzsimmons, Peter Maher, Joe Choynski, Joe Goddard, Kid McCoy....as you said, Rocky had a better defense. So with that fact in mind coupled with the smaller gloves, longer fights and greater level of punchers Sharkey faced then I think it's safe to say that Sharkey took a lot more firepower on the chin than Marciano and still kept plugging away in most cases. If anyone has a more proven chin, it is Tom.

And before anyone brings up the second Fitz fight, keep in mind that this was ALSO a post-Jeffries fight. Sharkey's best days were behind him and he still gave Fitz a hard go for as long as it lasted. This bout was like a heavyweight Hagler-Hearns. Tom floored and hurt Bob in the first round. Fitz, in an interview in his dressing room after the fight, lifted up his shirt and showed the journalists the angry red welts all over his trunk from Sharkey's body wallops. So don't let anyone tell you that this was a simple fight for Fitz. Short, yes. But not easy.

Another fight to point out is the first Choynki bout. Joe was a seasoned pro; Sharkey a greenhorn. He was expected to lose and lose big, so much so that there was a pre-arranged deal that he gets the decision if he manages to last the distance with the deadly hitting Choynski. Sharkey was defenseless. Choynski hit him at will with every powerpunch in the book for 8 rounds. It was the type of beating that could end a fighter's career and probably would in most cases. But not Sharkey. His toughness was etched in stone (and in blood) that day.

 

I know that he and Johnson sparred at the World's Fair once when they were old men and I even have a newspaper report of an impromptu brawl that they engaged in on the set of a movie(Jack was in his 50s, Tom in his 60s).

 

Based on your logic, Chuvalo is as good as Rocky Marciano atsch

'a dissipated Marciano who had spent several years smoking, drinking and not taking any tuneups jumping into the ring with a prime Muhammed Ali' - notice Ali wasn't laughing at Rocky's punches and called him better than Joe Frazier

 

atsch Don't forget he did that carrying a deer on his back

 

Jim Corbett won a 100m beach sprint against Jim Jeffries, once. I wonder if Corbett would have broken 10 seconds for the 100 yards?

 

Great post. Surt-Bat. In the Choynski fight, Sharkey fell out of the ring and landed on his head, then climbed back in the ring and won! Sharkey was as game as they come, and tough as nails. Years ago, Ring Magazine did an article on the best chins, and Sharkey was on the list.