Heavyweight Lineal Champions + Notable Contenders

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by lufcrazy, Apr 28, 2011.


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  1. TheGreat

    TheGreat Boxing Junkie banned

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    :patsch There was one title back then, and the top guys fought for it, The Klits are trying to share the title, this isn't wwf, there is no such thing as tag team boxing.
     
    TheGreat, Apr 29, 2011
    TheGreat, Apr 29, 2011
    #16
  2. cuchulain

    cuchulain Loyal Member Full Member

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    So ?

    There is, by definition, only ONE lineal champ at ANY time.

    And the definition of lineal champ is 'the man who beat the man.'


    Pretty much redundant observation. We would hardly expect the BOTTOM guys to fight for it, would we ?


    What has that got to do with my point that the lineal champ is the man who beat the man ?

    Obviously, there can only be ONE lineal champ at any one time.


    Again, what the **** has this to do with my point that the lineal champ is the man who beat the man, and as such, came to an end with the retirement of Marciano ?
     
    cuchulain, Apr 29, 2011
    cuchulain, Apr 29, 2011
    #17
  3. Cobbler

    Cobbler Shoemaker To The Stars Full Member

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    There are no 'lineal rules'. The above may be your personal opinion, but it's hardly the traditional defintion of lineal, so probably best not to state it as if it's fact.
     
    Cobbler, Apr 29, 2011
    Cobbler, Apr 29, 2011
    #18
  4. TheGreat

    TheGreat Boxing Junkie banned

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    A new Lineage was started after Marciano retired, in order for a new lineage to be started we need someone to unify the big 3.
     
    TheGreat, Apr 29, 2011
    TheGreat, Apr 29, 2011
    #19
  5. TheGreat

    TheGreat Boxing Junkie banned

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    You're rules are wrong, furthermore Corey Sanders was NEVER a top 3 HW.
     
    TheGreat, Apr 29, 2011
    TheGreat, Apr 29, 2011
    #20
  6. cuchulain

    cuchulain Loyal Member Full Member

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    cuchulain, Apr 29, 2011
    cuchulain, Apr 29, 2011
    #21
  7. TheGreat

    TheGreat Boxing Junkie banned

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    WBOGUS should really be left out, it only started getting recognized after De La Homo won it, other than that I agree, which is why, Haye and the Klits need to push the issue, don't care who wins, I just wanna see 1 guy become the face of HW boxing, haven't had that since Lewis.
     
    TheGreat, Apr 29, 2011
    TheGreat, Apr 29, 2011
    #22
  8. pahapoisu

    pahapoisu Superman! Full Member

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    Louis is truly atg. 12 years as the lineal champ :good
     
    pahapoisu, Apr 29, 2011
    pahapoisu, Apr 29, 2011
    #23
  9. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    They're not my rules. It's an interpretation.

    What ranking system do you use to determine sanders was not top 3 after knocking out wlad?

    I'll happily remove his claim if you can show me a link to the ring issue :)
     
    lufcrazy, Apr 29, 2011
    lufcrazy, Apr 29, 2011
    #24
  10. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    Alphabet belts mean nothing in the big picture. It's about who you beat not what trinket you hold.

    For example at middleweight I wouldn't call sylvester a top contender. At welterweight I wouldn't put senchenko or zavek in the top 3.
     
    lufcrazy, Apr 29, 2011
    lufcrazy, Apr 29, 2011
    #25
  11. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    Traditionally I believe the retiring champ designated two men to fight for his old belt.

    I'm not stating anything as fact, other than it is a fact that that is the criteria I used.

    If we are to demand the top two fight each other to declare a linear champ then history would show a different lineage i'm sure.

    Either way, it's irrelevant they're only 2 out of 38 names.

    My lineage differs also from the wba etc.
     
    lufcrazy, Apr 29, 2011
    lufcrazy, Apr 29, 2011
    #26
  12. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    Talent can be measured a few ways. We can look at someone on film and judge them, or we can look at the names they beat with relation to their era.

    I chose the latter method.
     
    lufcrazy, Apr 29, 2011
    lufcrazy, Apr 29, 2011
    #27
  13. Predator

    Predator Guest

    I always thought to establish a lineage after a fighter retires with the linear title, the #1 and #2 fighters must fight. As far as I am aware, this has not happened since Lewis retired.
     
    Predator, Apr 29, 2011
    Predator, Apr 29, 2011
    #28
  14. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    well as far as I know:

    when jeffries retired he declared the winner of a certain fight as the new champion (he later deined this when he came back from retirement).

    When tunney retired Sharkey and Schmelling where recognised as thenumber 1 and 2 fighters.

    When Marciano retired it appears the leading contender was archie moore, but I can't assertain whether patterson was number 2 or not.

    When Lewis retired the 3 top contenders where, in order Vitali, Byrd, Sanders. So that was 1 taking on 3.

    In 2009 the top 3 contenders where, in order, Wlad, Vitali, Chagaev. So that was, again, 1 taking on 3.

    If anyone can enlighten me on the moore-patterson situation I'd be greatful.

    I'm not pushing for wlad/vitali to be seen as lineal champs, not my goal at all, I listed them by my earlier interpretation of 1 vs 3, as in both occassions there wasn't much difference between 2 & 3.

    However if patterson and Moore were the clear 1 & 2 and this was the first time it would have been awarded to a 1 vs 3, then I'm pretty sure I'd change my viewpoint.
     
    lufcrazy, Apr 29, 2011
    lufcrazy, Apr 29, 2011
    #29
  15. Cobbler

    Cobbler Shoemaker To The Stars Full Member

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    Why would you be sure of that when traditionally lineage has been decided on the basis of the top two fighters in the division facing off?

    Do you have examples?

    You can't say that your criteria are the same when you are allowing that it can be decided by some means other than that happening.
     
    Cobbler, Apr 29, 2011
    Cobbler, Apr 29, 2011
    #30
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