Joe Louis - top 10 ATG or not?

You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

Jersey Joe Walcott was much tricker and deceptive than Ali, yet Joe Louis still managed to knock him out...

Ali is faster than Walcott with hands and feet, but he doesn't have the tools Walcott has.

On the other hand, he's probably more resilient, he's obviously faster, and he could theoretically beat Louis on the outside by only using his jab in one of the most boring fights in history.

 

The film says it all, his movement was laborious. Someone said he looks better on film than Ali. Pre exile Ali would be like the Conn fight times a 100, it wouldn't even be close.


Reading some of the **** you write about mma and boxing is a joke.

 

Ali was a far better athlete with a far better chin, he was faster across the board. The fight wouldn't need to take place in any domain other than the outside, Louis wouldn't get it to the inside.

 

Okay he has speed.

Mayweather is the best pound for pound fighter right now, and you'll never hear him say that he wins due to his speed. He says he wins due to his skills.

And it's obvious that you don't really understand Louis' style of defense. It many cases, unless of course you're Godoy or Marciano, the fighter found himself having to reach in to hit Louis.

Considering Ali's style, I see this happening often; however, Ali's speed and chin will likely allow him to get away from this and avoid taking any serious damage.

At the same time, if Louis manages to land some combinations, Ali may not be able to survive no matter how resilient he is.

And you think Louis didn't look good on film? He fought practically every style anybody can think of...

To crouching fighters like Godoy, slick counterpunchers like Walcott, boxers like Conn, and huge heavyweight fighters like Carnerra who fights remarkably similiar to Klitschko if you view them side by side on film.

You can look at this and honestly tell me he doesn't look good on film?

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Not to mention, Louis wasn't just a one handed fighter. He could switch off the lights with both hands.

I don't see where you're coming from.

Oh, and there he is again fighting a boxer/puncher in Max Baer.

 

How about the fact that Louis drained himself for the Conn I fight?

Anyway if you need a man that defines the role of champion you can't beat Louis. Rematched almost all the guys that gave him trouble and dominated them.

If ****ing henry cooper, mildenberger, and chuvalo got inside then how can you say some ridiculous **** like Louis wouldn't get there?

And it seems you don't really get why Conn and Walcott gave Louis a ton of issues. It's not just about movement.

 

I think he looks good on film, i also think that he was exceptional at certain things, i think his combination punching was a thing of beauty. I don't however think he looks top 10 p4p on film, which was the question posed. He has stylistic problems that would be more pronounced in subsequent era's. I can't say the same for the other names that would be making the list.

 

I would be of the opinion that Ali would be a touch more respectful of Louis than he was in some of his fights. He tended to mess around and showboat a great deal, different prospect entirely if he commits himself to a plan. Of course Louis would get inside, often enough for it to matter? Against someone as good in the clinch as Ali.

 

Uh, yes? Louis had a better inside game than 99% of Ali's opponents, including better punch variety there than Frazier. It is certainly possible that Ali could box to a decision, he is a fighter of that quality. But Louis would definitely catch him coming in, and he could certainly trap him near the ropes.

No idea what you're saying about Ali being good in the clinches though, unless you consider his holding of the head tactics to be legitimate and would work(Louis by his own admission says he'd bang away at Ali's body given the chance). And while Ali has a great chin, Louis has the kind of power+speed+accurate hitting to the head and body that almost negates toughness. Max Schmeling says that he was temporarily blinded by the right to the body he got from Louis in their rematch.

 

Pound for pound,he's well inside the top 20. At heavyweight,certainly top 5. Indeed,consensus says that he's either number 1 or 2.

 

Forget this Louis-Ali dickmeasuring though, this thread is about Louis being a boss.

 

The first boxing book I read when I was a kid in middle school was Joe Louis - The Brown Bomber. Besides Muhammad Ali And Joe Frazier, he got me more into boxing than any other boxer.

 

This sounds like hyperbole.

 

Why so far behind Ali? I could see a good argument for having Louis above Ali p4p, actually.

 

I don't believe it is hyperbole. Louis told the story in "Joe Louis: My Life".

Louis stated (I'm paraphrasing, I no longer have the book, lent it & never got it back) that he was determined to come in under 200 against Conn in '41 because he didn't want the MC saying "Louis 2-0-something, Conn 1-7-something...Louis said it would sound better if the MC said 1-9-something...

Basically Louis stated he didn't want to come across as a bully. I believe this - the whole book came across as very honest, the book came out only a year or 2 before Louis' death and it really was a "warts and all" auto. Louis really didn't come across as a man trying to cover anything up...he certainly revealed a lot in the book that painted him in a less than favourable light.

In answer to the original question, Joe Louis, a top ten p4p atg?

Absolutely, yes, imo. Top 4 or 5 for me.