Pound for pound, I don't think you can rank Tunney above Greb. At HW, Wills has a huge resume, Tunney has a much more limited one, something like 8 fights, wasn't it? I don't think you can rank Tunney above Wills. The point is, you can't have it both ways. He's either the second best pound-for-pound ATG available, or the second best HW available. But for you, do what you like, knock yourself out. It takes about eight pages to get you to knock Dempsey down a peg or two, and I don't have the inclination today
Pound-for-pound is not relevant. Benny Leonard was probably the best pound-for-pound. Wills was at his best long before Tunney came to prominence. And when Tunney was at his best Wills was all finished. So, they don't really occupy the exact same time - they both have claim to be the best. Dempsey's primes years straddle both, and his peeak sits in between theirs. I never knock Dempsey down a peg or two.
I'm pretty sure you haven't always had Dempsey at #16 or whatever it was the last time you did a list.
I think he can be, at HW Tunney's best wins trump Dempsey's best, Wills has much more depth of his resume but again Tunney's best wins could be said to be better with Dempsey, Gibbons, Heeney, Loughran and Greb P4P I think Tunney can rate over Greb, yes the smaller Greb beat him but Greb himself lost to Bartfield who was 20lbs smaller, so that's a worse loss than losing to Greb and Tunney avenged that loss himself. Aside from that Tunney beat everyone else without suffering a loss, Greb suffered more loses. He also has the bigger Dempsey, which is arguably a better win than Greb over Tunney. Greb has greater resume depth but it doesn't mean it's better
Well, you know, my lists are kind of fluid. Yesterday's #16 is tomorrow's #1. I tend to keep the same names and change with the order. Sometimes I keep the same order ... and change the names.
:good Tunney's record is just too good for him to be written off as definitely NOT the best of his time. I think he has as good a case as the others, at LHW and HW anyway.
U, By a VAST MAJORITY,boxing folks of the twenties, Hype igoe, Nat Fleischer,Damon Runyon, Grantland Rice, and others, always insisted that the prime cat-like Dempsey would have licked Gene Tunney.And so do I. These experts who saw them both numerous times, knew what they saw in both men, with more validity than we do, eighty long years later. P.S. Greb was a greater p4P fighter than Tunney. They fought 5 times and truly Greb licked Tunney very badly in the first bout in 1922,[my dad was there],and more than held his own in the other 4 bouts, despite spotting the growing Tunney many pounds. Weight handicaps should determine the P4P choices, ala Fitz,Langford, Greb, Armstrong, etc, as it does horse racing.:hi:
I agree. Greb was greater, pound-for-pound. And, yes, maybe Dempsey of 1919 would beat Tunney but I can't fault Tunney for coming along when he did. Tunney hit his stride around 1923, and his peak was '25 - '28. And he was the best during THAT time, IMO. He beat everyone he fought, and was never KO'd. And that gives him enough right to be put in the argument. Cheers. :good
Well, what is your point anyway? He blatantly ducked 2 of the top 3 of his time, and was outclassed twice by the other 1.