Where does oscar de la hoya rank?

Harry Greb, Sugar Ray Robinson, Ezzard Charles, Benny Leonard, Sam Langford, Henry Armstrong, Roberto Duran, Willie Pep, Joe Gans, Archie Moore, Barney Ross, Gene Tunney, Kid Gavilan, Ike Williams, Muhammad Ali, Marvin Hagler, Mickey Walker, Sugar Ray Leonard, Pernell Whitaker, Luis Manuel Rodriguez, Jimmy Wilde, Rocky Marciano, Julio Cesar Chavez, Carlos Monzon, Packey McFarland, Tommy Ryan, Jose Napoles, Roy Jones Jr., Vicente Saldivar, Eder Jofre, Bob Fitzsimmons, Joe Louis, Duilio Loi, Tony Canzoneri, Sandy Saddler, Fighting Harada, Carlos Ortiz, Mike Gibbons, Nicolino Locche, Young Griffo, Jim Jeffries, Joe Walcott, Alexis Arguello, Abe Attell, Jack Dillon, Jack Johnson, Jim Driscoll, Marcel Cerdan, Philadelphia Jack O'Brien, Terry McGovern, Harry Wills, Charley Burley, Harold Johnson, Miguel Canto, Larry Holmes, Ruben Olivares, Emile Griffith, Thomas Hearns, Jack Britton, Salvador Sanchez, Beau Jack, Lew Tendler, Jimmy McLarnin, Michael Spinks, Freddie Welsh, Ernesto Marcel, George Dixon, Lou Ambers, John Henry Lewis, Bob Foster, Wilfredo Gomez, Holman Williams, Bernard Hopkins, Tommy Loughran, Mike McCallum, Nino Benvenuti, Carmen Basilio, Dick Tiger, Johnny Dundee, Victor Galindez, Billy Graham, Azumah Nelson, Ted Kid Lewis, Maxie Rosenbloom, Joey Giardello, George Foreman, Aaron Pryor, Gene Fullmer, Manuel Ortiz, Johnny Kilbane, Lennox Lewis, Bob Montgomery, Jake Lamotta, Sammy Mandell, Billy Conn, Jack Dempsey, Ken Buchanan, Jackie Kid Berg, Joey Archer
:good

 

No, bro

 

Of course. Anytime you want to tell me why Oscar is better than 75 to 80% of the guys listed there (and who those guys are), I'll be here to consider it.

And just to pre-warn you, making girls' panties wet with missed flurries is not a sufficient reason :thumbsup

 

McDicky turned back the clock for that one

 

I think that's a fantastic list, and I agree with your general sentiment, but I think you'd have a very very hard time arguing that Ernesto Marcel deserves to be ranked anywhere near as highly as Evander Holyfield, never mind any higher.

 

sweet scientist, why is holyfield not on your list? i would have thought that he'd make a top one hundred on almost any criteria.

he even went the distance in a fifteen rounder!

 

Cheers:good

My main justification for having Marcel over Evander is the level of dominance that Marcel displayed during his prime. Evander has a better resume, in that it has more depth, but even so I would still argue that Alexis Arguello is a better fighter than anyone Holyfield ever beat, and I'd argue that even considering the greenish nature of Arguello at the time of the Marcel fight.

Whilst Evander had some poor showings in his prime (Moorer, Bowe), I don't think Marcel did and even his loss to Duran to me showed more than Evander did in some of his 'better' losses (to Lewis & Bowe, for example).

 

He arguably belongs. There's a few guys there that Evander could be interchangeable with, but if you look at the names on my list, there's no fighter there that was less than outstanding. History of the sport is deep and although I wouldn't raise an eyebrow at anyone that rates Evander quite highly, I don't think it's a crime to leave him off the list. As I said earlier, there's plenty of quality guys that aren't on that list that many would have locks for top 100, until they actually went about and thought of all the guys they would need to leave off for that to happen.

 

The thing is though you probably have Whitaker top10, who was past prime and may have edged Oscar but given the thin line between the 2 is why I don't do lists. Plus you have Holyfield over Lewis, which I'm not totally against but it is tad strange given Holyfield is smaller and pushed Lennox all the way

Some of the men you have above DLH P4P have comparatively much thinner resumes, Jeffries hasn't even beat a man within 30lbs of himself - it is called P4P right? Many names who weren't at all dominant and very short times at the top, the fact you're rating all those over DLH, FMJ, MAB, JMM, Morales indicates you probably don't rate post-Whitaker boxers

 

fair enough. it's quite mad to think that someone who could be justified in having a top thirty slot, could also reasonably be left out of a top one hundred. boxing has to be the only sport with that kind of depth, and ambiguity for that matter!

 

Agreed a good portion of his lists doesnt even compare to Delahoyas.. So many to name i wont even start.. But Victor Galindez, Joey Archer,Ernesto Marcel,dulio Loi and a whole lot more stand out as guys that IMO arent even close to ODLH.

 

Whitaker's around 20th on my p4p list. I thought he edged DLH, but holding your own with a guy on the cusp of a top 100 is a pretty good effort when you're past your best. That said, Whitaker's high rating comes more from his extreme dominance in his prime. And before you then ask how I could justifiably leave someone like Floyd off the list, well, I think Floyd's lost twice already and I don't rate his resume much to tell you the truth. The irony is that I think DLH beat floyd (by a point) and yet DLH STILL doesn't make my top 100. **** me, imagine some of you guys thought he beat floyd.... We'd be hearing top ten all time calls...

Well kinda, but I thought Lewis controlled him both times. That said, I'm not going to lie and say size didn't have something to do with it. If you wanted to exchange Lennox's spot with Holyfield's at the bottom end of a top 100, I wouldn't complain.

It's always hard to rate guys that won because of size. Jeffries was rather dominant, but no doubt size had something to do with it. There's obviously a benefit of the doubt that I'm giving to him because of the results that he achieved so if you'd like to put in a small guy in his stead, I wouldn't put up a massive argument, though at the same time one shouldn't dismiss him so easily and just say 'yeah but he was big'.

As for DLH's resume against the resumes of others there, sure, DLH has better resumes than some of them, but resume to me is only half of the equation (actually it's less than half for me: 45%).

 

I think the fact Evander was 36 and 37 years old for them fights, had more to do with it.

 

All of those guys you mentioned had something which DLH didn't, and that's dominance.

 

Quite possibly. But he was hardly Mr. consistency, even at his best.. I wouldn't have been shocked if he put up a worse effort in his prime than what he did the second go round, even though I don't really rate that performance anyway - more a cop out by a cautious Lewis who just wanted to get the win without putting himself on the line and using his size to accommodate it.