Heavyweight Lineal Champions + Notable Contenders

my example is patterson vs moore.

i know that schmelling and sharkey where the top 2, but i'm not sure patterson was in the top 3. as i said at the start of the thread, I'm using year end ratings and at the end of 1955 Patterson wasn't even in the top 10.

as i said tho, if this is the case and moore/patterson were 1 and 2 then I'll stick with tradition :deal

 

up for debate :good

do you have any info on whether patterson and moore were 1 & 2 when they fought for the vacant championship?

 

I'll ignore your abrasive tone and instead show gratitude :good thank you very much for that info. I wasn't sure if beating Jackson promoted him to number 2, I didn't have access to the rankings at the time, thank you.

I'll fold, If every other champ in history got there by either beating "the man" or by beating the number 1/2 when they are number 1/2 then it should be no different today.

When Vitali beat Johnson, Byrd was the number 2 contender, he never rematched him. He retired before every beating the number 2 contender.

When wlad beat Byrd maskaev/peter were the number 2 contenders and he faced neither, nor did he face the winner of their fights (vitali) so he wasn't lineal.

Thanks again :good

 

I'll be adding the resume's of Langford, Wills and Norton to this also.

For thos interested, the rank is a points system that can be obviously changed.

It is based on

years reigned
beating the man
top 10 opposition beaten
top opposition defended against
past/future lineal champs beaten

I weighted it 1,2,3,4,1 respectively.

 

I agree, see my above post :good

I wasn't sure if patterson - moore was 1 vs 2, but it's been cleared up for me.

and yeah you're right they make the difference beacuse the tp 3 are ranked. I still maintain it is the ranking which is more important than being a belt holder, today they happen to go hand in hand.

since Lewis the best we've had is 1 vs 3, so i agree no new lineage :deal

 

regarding wlad, he didn't beat maskaev, peter, vitali whilst they were ranked number 2. if he beats haye it's still 1 vs 3. to establish linearity he needs to beat vitali/the next number 2.

I changed my points system to the following.

Ok, this time I've weighted it as follows:

2 points for every year they were champion
6 points for every fighter they faced in the top 10
7 points for every fighter they faced in the top 5
8 points for every fighter they faced who was the highest ranked at the time
9 points for beating "the man"
4 points for beating someone who was or would become "the man"

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I don't believe Vit started a new lineage, but Sanders was top 4

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/The_Ring_Magazine's_Annual_Ratings:_Heavyweight--2000s

he'd have needed to beat byrd to become the new champ IMO

 

I've tried to iron out any mistakes I made, but here is the latest breakdowns. I've added the main black contenders from the 1900's.

This only shows which top 10 ranked opposition they fought throughout their career. I have actually broken it down to top 5 and leading contender on my spreadsheet.

Key: CC=current champ, TD = title defence, NC=non-current champ.

Sullivan: 7 years: Donaldson, Dalton, Ryan (x2), Elliot, Mitchell, Slade, Mcaffrey, Kilrain (TD).

Corbett: 5 years: Choynski (x2), Kilrain, Mcaffrey, Mccoy, Sullivan (CC)

Fitzsimmons: 2 years: Hall, Choynski, Maher, Corbett (CC), Ruhlin, Sharkey, OBrien

Jeffries: 6 years: Sharkey (x2, 1TD), Armstrong, Fitzsimmons (x2, CC + TD), Corbett (x2, 2TDNC), Kennedy, Ruhlin (TD)

Hart: 1 year: Carter( x2), Ferguson, Ruhlin, Johnson (NC), Root, Sullivan, Ross

Burns: 3 years: Hart (CC), OBrien (TD)

Johnson: 7 years: Childs, Gardner, Martin, Mcvea (x3), Ferguson, Jeanette (x4), Langford, Fitsimmons (NC*), Flynn, Burns (CC), Ross (TD), Kaufman (TD), Ketchel (TD), Jeffries (TDNC*), Moran (TD),

Willard: 4 years: J. Johnson (CC), Moran (TD), F. Johnson

Dempsey: 7 years: Morris, Fulton, Miske (x2, 1TD), Willard (CC), Brennan (TD), Carpentier (TD), Gibbons (TD), Firpo (TD), Sharkey (NC)

Tunney: 2 years: Spalla, Risko, Dempsey (x2, CC, TDNC), Heeney (TD)

Schmeling: 2 years: Risko, Uzcudun, Sharkey (CC), Stribling (TD), Walker, Neusel, Louis (NC)

Sharkey: 1 years: F. Johnson, Renault, Gorman, Godfrey, Wills, Maloney, Delaney, Stribling, Carnera (NC), Schmelling (CC)

Carnera: 1 year: Stribling, Godfrey, Levinsky, Schaaf, Sharkey (CC)

Baer: 1 year: Risko, Levinsky (x2), Schaaf, Griffiths, Schmelling (NC), Carnera (CC), Farr, Galento

Braddock: 2 years: Lasky, Baer (CC), Farr

Louis: 12 years: Massera, Ramage (x2), Perroni, Brown, Carnera (NC), Levinsky, Baer (NC), Retzlaff, Attore, Braddock (CC), Farr (TD), Mann (TD), Schmelling (TDNC), Galento (TD), Pastor (TD), Godoy (x2TD), Paycheck (TD), Burman (TD), Simon (x2, 2TD), Baer (x2, 2TD), Conn (x2, 2TD), Nova (TD), Mauriello (TD), Walcott (x2, 2TDNC), Savold, Brion

Charles: 2 years: Maxim (x4, 1TD), Bivins (x2), Baksi, Walcott (x2, NC +TDNC), Valentino (TD), Louis (TDNC), Oma (TD), Layne (x2), Brion, Harrison, Wallace, Satterfield

Walcott: 1 year: Sheppard, Murray, Baksi, Bivins, Gomez, Oma, Maxim (x2), Ray, Johnson, Agramonte, Charles (x2, CC + TDNC)

Marciano: 4 years: Lastarza (x2, 1TD), Layne, Louis (NC), Matthews, Walcott (x2, CC + TDNC), Charles (x2, TDNC), Cockell (TD), Moore (TD)

Patterson: 5 years: Harrison, Slade, Jackson (x2, 1TD), Moore, Harris (TD), London (TD), Johanneson (x2, CC +TDNC), Machen, Chuvalo, Bonavena

Johanneson : 1 year: Machen, Patterson (CC)

Liston: 2 years: Bethea, DeJohn, Williams, Harris, Folley, Machen, Patterson (x2, CC + TDNC), Clark

Ali: 11 years: Daniels, Lazarante, Moore, Jones, Cooper, Liston (x2, CC+TDNC), Patterson (x2, TDNC, NC), Chuvalo (TD), London (TD), Mildenberger (TD), Terrell (TD), Folley (TD), Quarry (x2), Bonavena, Ellis, Foster, Bugner (x2, TD), Norton (x2, TD), Frazier (x2, NC + TDNC), Foreman (CC), Wepner (TD), Lyle (TD), Young (TD), Evangelista (TD), Shavers (TD), L. Spinks (CC)

Frazier: 3 years: Bonavena (x2), Chuvalo, Ramos, Quarry (x2), Ellis, Foster (TD), Ali (TDNC), Bugner

Foreman: 4 years: Chuvalo, Frazier (x2 CC +NC), Norton (TD), Lyle, Moorer (CC),
L. Spinks: 0 years: Ali (CC), Evangelista, Mercardo

Holmes: 5 years: Shavers (x2), Norton, Evangelista, Weaver, Zanon, Jones, LeDoux, Ali (CC), Berbick (TD), Spinks (TDNC), Cooney (TD), Cobb (TD) Witherspoon (TD), Smith (TD), Bey (TD), Williams (TD), Mercer

M. Spinks: 3 years: Holmes (x2, CC + TDNC)

Tyson : 2 years: Berbick, Smith, Thomas, Tucker, Biggs, Holmes (NC*), Spinks (CC) , Williams (TD), Ruddock (x2), Bruno, Seldon,

Douglas: 0 years: Page, Berbick, Tyson (CC)

Holyfield: 3 years: Thomas, Dokes, Rodrigues, Douglas (CC), Foreman (TDNC), Holmes (TDNC), Bowe (CC), Tyson (x2 NC), Moorer (NC), Rahman

 

Bowe: 1 year: Holyfield (x2 CC + NC), Hide, Golota (x2)

Moorer: 0 years: Holyfield (CC)

Briggs: 1 year: Foreman (CC), Lyakhovic

Lewis: 6 years: Ruddock, Tucker, Jackson, Butler, Mercer, Mccall, Akinwade, Golota, Briggs (CC), Holyfield (TDNC), Grant (TD), Tua (TD), Rahman (CC), Tyson (TDNC), V. Klitschko (TD)

Rahman: 0 years: Lewis (CC), Barrett

Notable Contenders

V. Klitschko: Kirk Johnson, Sanders, Williams, Peter, Gomez, Arreola, Kevin Johnson, Solis, Briggs (NC*)

W. Klitschko: Byrd (x2), McCline, Peter, Brock, Brewster, Ibragimov, Thompson, Rahman
(NC*), Chagaev, Chambers

Langford: Jeanette (x, Ross, Flynn (x2), Schreck, Ketchel, Lang, Mcvea(x4), D. Flynn, Smith, Wills (x2), Norfolk, Battling Jim Johnson (x2)

Wills: Langford (x9), Mcvea, Jeanette, Fulton, Firpo, Weinert

Jeanette: Johnson, Mcvea (x2), Ferguson (x2), D. Flynn, Ross, Jim Johnson (x4), Carpentier, Pelkey, Langford (x2), Norfolk (x2)

Mcvea: Carter, Martin, Jeanette, Langford (x2), Pelkey, Jim Johnson, Wills (x2)