Whats Your Top Ten Hd 2 Hd Featherweights in History

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by sugarsean, Mar 27, 2011.


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  1. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    Its one fight. Hardly a fair reflection of his whole career/style.

    You can't know a fighter well with a 5 min video clip, without very indepth research alongside it.
     
    GPater11093, Apr 30, 2011
    GPater11093, Apr 30, 2011
    #91
  2. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    Don't think we will agree here. I get you though.

    I think the footage we have of Pep pre-plane crash (albeit brief) paints him in a better light.

    Also it should be mentioned Pep was a bit more of a puncher pre-plane crash, or at least he was finding his power.
     
    GPater11093, Apr 30, 2011
    GPater11093, Apr 30, 2011
    #92
  3. sugarsean

    sugarsean Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I read alot about him and his record but the main thing that he is renowned for is his strenght, one punch power and toughness, not his his defense and techinque and the footage backs this up.
     
    sugarsean, Apr 30, 2011
    sugarsean, Apr 30, 2011
    #93
  4. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    No-one is disputing that, they are just mentioning he was not completely defensively inept, as some paint him.

    The main thing Tyson is renowned for is his brilliant offence, ditto Duran, but they also had good defenses, you get me?
     
    GPater11093, Apr 30, 2011
    GPater11093, Apr 30, 2011
    #94
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    What i'd say about this is his power, such as it was, is not going to help him with Saddler, second of all, and I hate to bang on about it, but between 1944 and 1952, only one guy beat Pep and that was Saddler...know what I mean? How past prime was he, really? I mean I know he looked **** for a year and you can understand why, but still...

    ...also, and I really am tilting at windmills here, but would you agree or disagree with me that Saddler was the best fighter Pep had faced since Agnott? What attributes do you think Agnott had that allowed him to nick that decision?


    But I do see what you mean, too. It's like if only the second and third Ali-Frazier fights had happened, nobody would believe that a primed Frazier would have hope.
     
    McGrain, Apr 30, 2011
    McGrain, Apr 30, 2011
    #95
  6. Vic-JofreBRASIL

    Vic-JofreBRASIL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Great thread !

    A honorable mention is Jose LEgra here, I think.....
    I can imagine him being a tough night for many guys at FW, he had size, speed, skills.......He would be a very good opponent for Pep, MAB or Manny Pacquiao in my opinion,
    But I wouldnt pick him against Saddler and Sanchez......Johnny Famechon is another good honorable mention.....
     
    Vic-JofreBRASIL, Apr 30, 2011
    Vic-JofreBRASIL, Apr 30, 2011
    #96
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    This McGovern thing - i think it's styles. Hugely aggressive swarmers with power (and perhaps only Ketchel peers McGovern in this regard) have an inbuilt defence in terms of their style, Ketchel more so I believe. Punchers and defensive masterminds alike become swamped. Pegged in. McGovern was a very fast starter. Overall, i'd fall into the sugersean camp on this. I don't think McGovern was "shifty" at all, just hugely competent physically with superb execution of his perfect style. Which beats shifty 9 times out of 10.
     
    McGrain, Apr 30, 2011
    McGrain, Apr 30, 2011
    #97
  8. sugarsean

    sugarsean Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Never said he defense was inept just that its very open and one of his weaker qualities as a fighter.

    I get your point though.
     
    sugarsean, Apr 30, 2011
    sugarsean, Apr 30, 2011
    #98
  9. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    Yes, but it can't hurt in anyway (for Pep I mean)

    Well, he was in a plane crash that could have killed him, and broke his back. And I'm not making excuses here, but I reckon that would have a major effect on anyone. It is pretty serious.

    Also he had been on top for a while and was getting on in years, so I'd say he had definitely lost a step or two. Maybe in his punch resistance, and all round resistance, after all he had fought arguably the biggest Featherweight puncher ever, in Chalky wright three times, without going down, or being hurt. Although that could be a testament to his defensive skills.

    I aint read up that much on it, but it does appear to have been a Saddler-sort of style that won it for Angott. but we have evidence that Pep could cope with the Saddler style, and triumph, with the rematch with Saddler.

    Yes.

    Also put it like this, Pep past his best out-boxed Hogan Bassey before getting KO'd, who would you pick if they fought in their primes?
     
    GPater11093, Apr 30, 2011
    GPater11093, Apr 30, 2011
    #99
  10. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    You meaning they have the threat of their power as a defensive mechanism?

    Basically 'Trident' on a boxer.

    I get you know, that is fair enough.
     
    GPater11093, Apr 30, 2011
    GPater11093, Apr 30, 2011
    #100
  11. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

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    He was winning the fights where he ended up losing due to injury. Besides their first contest which was a convincing Saddler win, Pep was out-boxing for the majority of their fights and won unanimously in the bout he won. I think it's just that Saddler is so rough that makes McGrain think that Pep would've always lost to due to not being able to continue via injury or something.

    What footage of pre-plane crash Pep do we have? Is the pre-plane crash just a mythology? I know he struggled in fights after but did he ever regain that form? What would John Garfield speak on Pep before and after?
     
    PetethePrince, Apr 30, 2011
    PetethePrince, Apr 30, 2011
    #101
  12. sugarsean

    sugarsean Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Exactly

    When some mother****er coming at with no fear of your power while he's smashing your face in, sometimes the gameplan takes a back seat while you think what have I got here.
     
    sugarsean, Apr 30, 2011
    sugarsean, Apr 30, 2011
    #102
  13. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    McGrain likes it rough.

    We have the rematch with McAllister, and is it Joey Cam or someone like that, its about 10 mins long and he doesn't get hit.
     
    GPater11093, Apr 30, 2011
    GPater11093, Apr 30, 2011
    #103
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    No doubt. I don't doubt it. But what did he lose? So little that he beat everyone he met...apart from Saddler. I mean what did he lose that he won something like a hundred fights against everyone apart from Saddler? The only apparent indication that he lost something in the crash are the losses from Saddler, in terms of his record.

    Remember when Henrik Larsson broke his leg? It was a career ending injury but his first season back was his best ever. Horrible comparison, but you see where i am coming from.

    Yes, but you seem to be saying that Saddler's three time triumph over Pep doesn't matter inspite of all it indicates in terms of styles and physicality, but that Pep's victory is somehow crucial in unpicking any result. Given that Pep beat everyone else he met around that time, which other featherweights do we assume would go 3-1 with him at this time? Saddler is wrong for him, and most other fighters at the weight IMO.


    Pep.

    But Bassey beat Pep as a part of a 12-3 run. Saddler beat Pep as a part of a 101-3-1 series with ALL the losses coming at the hands of Saddler.
     
    McGrain, Apr 30, 2011
    McGrain, Apr 30, 2011
    #104
  15. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    You'd think top-class defensive boxers would have dealt with this (albeit on a lower scale), and known how to do it against McGovern?

    I don't buy it that McGovern is some nutcase who just runs at you winging punches, forcing you out of your game. The guys he fought attest that this can;t have been the case.
     
    GPater11093, Apr 30, 2011
    GPater11093, Apr 30, 2011
    #105
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