Loses to Ward, Froch, Kessler and Andrea Dirrell beats Lucy Bute, Johnson and AA. :deal Prime Pavlik probably beats them all barring Ward.
A question for this comment. If Pavlik moved up to 168 and lost to Froch and Bute in close but clear decisions, would you end up saying that Pavlik just isn't his best?
If Pavlik WON then is the whole division over rated or did these guys ruin their careers beating each other up for peanuts or does Kelly get his due?
If he won I'd give him credit. I have no qualms about doing that. And when one of my favorite fighters lose I have no problems admitting that he lost fair and square (provided no iffy judging). A win over any elite SMW (and I don't know why some are putting Green, AA, Bika and some others in here) would be big for him and could shake up the SMW landscape(which is always a good thing and brings plenty of intrigue) and he'd get his due. However, going back to my point, if he LOST, would we see the excuse that "oh, he's just not at his best anymore...if he was...he'd clean out the whole division" (or in the case after the Martinez fight "he's shot" "he's weight drained" "he lost the title at the scales" "if Kelly was in his prime he'd knock him out"). If that's what we can expect to see than it's a waste of time talking about it. EDIT: I realize that I'm only speaking for myself when I say I'd give Kelly his due. Who knows what others would do. Typically if he got a big win over an elite SMW you'd think the way fans react he'd get a lot of props...but given Kelly's polarity on this board...who knows.
My earlier post was a lot more involved than a simple triangulation of common opponents. I realize it causes many people great pain to admit it, but most of the top tier at 168 made their bones fighting Pavlik's left overs, or fighters who were not as good as Pavlik's left overs. For you to pretend like I did not go deeper than a simple triagulation of common opponents can only be a personal attack on me, or an outrageous level of anti-pavlik sentiment. You are a much better poster than that, so why sink to that level?
Pavlik could beat that little coward from michigan via no contest as direll cites incontinence problems at the staredown. any of the other contenders at 168 send Kelly packing back to the hicksville liquor store quicker than you can say "great white hoax"
Good question. Even at his best Pavlik could lose to Froch and Bute, I think he'd beat them but they are even type of fights. I guess it would depend on how he looked, how he did in other fights as well, etc.
News from the Pavlik camp says he'll make the weight for May 7th quite easily. He may even enter the ring just a tad bit lighter than he was for Martinez. I do not think many people realize how much time and effort Kelly had to spend on making 160. He struggled with the weight ever since 2006. Working his ass off to make weight took time, energy, and effort away from sparring, pad work, balance and coordination drills, et, et. Now that he'll be able to train like a normal fighter I think a lot of people will be shocked by what they see.
Unknown. Years of alcohol, some bad defeats, and inactivity will definitely affect him. For his sake i hope he can turn it around, but it might just have been too long. If he CAN do it, amazing story of redemption. But i remain skeptical.
Let's not forget; Pavlik's fighting a no-hoper next week. He's supposed to go out there and do an impressive job on Lopez. I honestly see how Pavlik is being underrated in this thread, but I can also see clear denial from some people, every time he gets his ass boxed silly.
If Pavlik actually committed to campaigning at 168, I strongly believe he would be competitive. I actually think he beats some of the top guys. If only his people had as much belief. The one's he loses to at '68, he loses BADLY to, solely due to how the styles match up. Who beat who in the past would have ****all to do with how a fight would go between Pavlik and any of the big dogs at '68. We need to stay tuned and hope he decides to tackle that division. He wouldn't be "weight drained", "sick", or "drunk" this time around, I suppose. :hat