Jack Johnson would beat all the ATG swarmers

I think Floyd Patterson would have been too fast for Jack. Mr. Johnson wouldn't know what hit him.

 

The thing that is forgotten by those he see Johnson as an easymark, is that the work he does on the inside in the clinches actually prevents fighters Like Joe from getting away clean punches and maintaining their work rate. When they get in close they will be smothered, and when they do land, they cant do so cleanly, because before they throw a punch, they have to break from Johnson's grip. I dont see how you can consistently land the same level of combinations against this style of fighter. Of course, with modern refs, the ref can stop the clinching altogether, but that is hardly fair and even in a matchup like this.

Fighters like Frazier have never had to deal with the wrestling like a Jack Johnson brings to the table, and i think they would find him much harder to hit cleanly than most people assume. Of course, just because they have never dealt with such clinching doesnt mean they couldnt, but i think they would need to change their style. I certainly think their work rate would drop massively among other things. I think that any predictions would need to assume a liberal ref, and would need to consider how the other fighters would cope with Jack Johnson just as much if not more as how Jack Johnson copes with them.

 

Those 'swarmers' have really varied styles and I don't think he beats them just because of one strong punch.

 

I find it difficult to muster the same confidence in Johnson. :conf

 

Forget about mustering confidence, because i havent even made a prediction on how he goes. What do you think allowing fighters to gold, grappel and even strike in the clinches does to the work rate of a fighter he is up against. I mean if you lack the confidence in Jack Johnson, think what Muhammed Ali would to to the game of these guys, if he elected to fight like Johnson and clinch and defend (call it a 1900s rope a dope without the rope if you like) in exactly the same manner. How do you think this would effect the work rate of the swarmers mentioned. Would they still be able to throw the same number of punches with the same effectiveness. I dont think they would. I think that a clinch/wrestler will smother the workrate and effectiveness, if it is allowed by the referees.

I am not saying that the swarmer cant win, just pointing out that they cant win in the same manner that they would usually win in.

 

I didn't say you did, Boiler. I meant as much confidence as you did give, not with the assumption you'd picked a winner.

 

Bugner goes the distance with Frazier,Mathis goes 11rds ,even Scrap Iron Johnson goes the distance, easy to hit Bonavena goes the distance twice , but Johnson is stopped in the middle rounds ?:huh

 

You want me to muster the energy to make a long list of examples where that doesn't work that you and I both undoubtedly know already? :think Seems like it might be a waste of time. You could probably do a longer list than me.

 

No I want you to explain your confidence in Frazier brutally stopping Johnson in the middle rounds, when he could not do it to three men who were inferior to Johnson defensively and did not possess his skills ,or uppercut, which I think Frazier would be bobbing into.
But don't bother if you don't wish to.

 

Oh, I don't have confidence in it, but threw it out there on a whim, likely out of a deep-seated resentment for the large H2H cred one guy seems to get and the large amount the other doesn't. If Pachilles can do it to Duran, I can do it to Jack. :bart

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My point is really more about how the liberal clinching affects the number of combinations, workrate and clean hard punches that can be landed. Do you agree with this point?

 

As you like.

 

Sure.

 

Those guys were not KO'd or floored by super middle weights. Bugner and Bonavena had a better chin than Johnson.

 

I never really thought of going to the Mendoza level...It was casual in nature at most. If it gets worse, I'll seek a unique route where eye-twinkling will be assumed. I promise.