What if Johnson-Willard was 15rounds?

No doubt Willard would have pressed the fight more insistantly, had it been over this route, but assuming Johnson would win, which I think is logical,and also assuming that he continued to avoid Langford,which knowing his own condition ,or lack of it, I think is also a fair guess.Likewise the other black challengers.
It's possible Gunboat Smith might have got a shot at Jack ,but I don't see him winning.he was only a really viable contender for 9 months of his career ,and quickly descended to trial horse status.
McCarty had been dead for 2 years. Johnson likely loses to Fulton or Dempsey, both of whom beat Smith in 1917.
Johnson beat Tom Cowler when he as 41 years old , so I don't see him in the picture though he was good enough to beat Smith in 1916.
Smith beat Moran in 1916, so no return match for Jack there.

The only other wild card would be Carl Morris but he was too much of an in and outer ,imo.

So its Fulton or Dempsey to beat Johnson in 1917,whoever got to him first, by which time Johnson would be 39/40 years old.

 

Johnson wins, and then gets whipped by Fulton, Dempsey, or maybe...Jack Dillon . I can see an old Johnson viewing him as an easy prospect based on size alone and making a biiiiiiiig mistake.

 

Dillon lost clearly to Mike Gibbons in 1916 and got easily beaten by Levinsky twice , he was rough and tough, a great light heavy, but I don't think he had the science to beat even an old Johnson ,at that time ,later he certainly would be in the equation.

 

I think Johnson might take on Harry Wills at a very early stage. It would be interesting to see what it did to his legacy, if you added a young Harry Wills (in the same vein as MCvey, Jeanette and Langford) to Johnson's record.

Given the length of his win streak that he already had, I think that Dempsey really is the best chance for the upset. Given Dempsey's class, and the fact that Johnson would probably underestimate the smaller fighter with the questionable Chin (flynn KO) i think that Dempsey would be the one to eventually KO Johnson. And it probably would be brutal and early against an old and unprepared Dempsey.

 

I've never seen, neither has anyone else alive today, the entire fight before... I have also never seen the cards posted before... I'm assuming Johnson was doing well after 15 rds regardless of his woeful shape and age in 1915....

Prior to 1950, the film used by Hollywood and photographers was a highly flamable film that diminished after a decade and a half or so before it became useless and wasted. That is why we have lotsa' clips from the golden era of films, but unless the film from way back was properly cared for and re-mastered every 15 to 20 years, most of the footage would and has become lost---FOREVER!

MR.BILLpatsch:bbb:hat

 

Johnson was in front after 22rds ,then the sand rapidly ran out of his hourglass . Willard hurt him in the 23rd with bodyshots ,and started to land solidly as Johnson's legs left him.Willard could bang ,and he could take it.
Barney Curley ,the promoter ,picked the right man for the job ,and just to make sure, he scheduled the fight for 45rds, no way could Jack do 45rds, and ,as he couldn't stop the giant ,he was doomed.

 

Smith and Morris had long ceased to be contenders and outside of the black contenders the best were Fulton, Miske, Brennan and later Dempsey. I agree Fulton or Dempsey could have pulled it off.

 

Was Johnson forced into agreeing to the distance?

Not trying to be a smartass at all, I'm genuinely curious. I know going into that fight Willard was noted for his stamina, but he was still only 1-2 in fights that went past 10 rounds and only fought past 12 rounds once, losing on points in a 20 rounder. Johnson had just went 20 in a winning effort the year before and had more experience in longer fights. Was it more of case of Johnson overlooking Willard's chances, figuring he'd be fine because the fight wouldn't go that long anyways, or was Jack that desperate for a fight and in such a weak negotiating spot that he didn't have much control over the terms?

 

Hard to say who would win in 1915 under modern rules. If there was a 15 round distance, Willard, who pretty much sleep walked though the early rounds to save stamina, gets down to business earlier.

The ring size also matters. Back them 25 x 25 rings were common. Today 20 x 20 is common, and the small ring favors a larger puncher. Since I have seen the films, I can say Willard could have finished Johnson inside 25 rounds if he wanted too. Could he have done the job in 15? Maybe. Once Willard starts throwing and landing, his punches have effect. Johnson could not hurt Willard, and trust me he lands plenty early.

 

This opinion is not supported by any reputable sports writer, or journalist who was either there, or has seen the footage of the fight ,indeed I have never seen it supported by any boxing fan.

Willard took a drubbing ,but simply out lasted the older less well conditioned man.
If Willard could have finished the fight early, he would have.
Willard complained about the temperature stating," it was hotter than hell in there".
To argue otherwise is, irrational, and incomprehensible, in other words a mirror of your posts

 

If it was a 15 round fight, the preparations for the fight would've been completely different, and the pace of the fight and the tactical approach wouldve been completely different. You cant just chop bits of fights off, bro

 

Well thats all well and good, but stop ducking mcvey

 

After the fight Johnson told Barney Curley, the promoter, that he didn't beleive any man could stay with him for 15rds, if he really went to work on him.
I beleive he overestimated his own powers at that time ,and gravely underestimated Willard's durability and endurance.

The thought that he might have to go 45rds ,probably did not enter into Johnson's head.

The 20 rounder with Moran a year earlier ,was fought at the Velodrome in Paris, at night ,a bit different to the outside , midday fight in Havana where the humidity was stifling,every thing was geared to a Willard victory.
Johnson saw Willard as just another big crude cowboy,and, in his overweening conceit, probably thought he would take him out long before the marathon distance became a factor.

At any rate Johnson was in no position to argue , he was a fugitive from his own country ,and living in very reduced circumstances at the time of the fight, he needed money ,and was not in the driving seat to bargain for favourable terms.