did henry cooper really have Muhammad Ali out

So. any shift in thinking with this being topical at the moment.....

 

He has Clay bang in trouble. His eyes were all over the place, and he even stood up in the corner seemingly unaware of where he was. Was Clay 'out', nope. But he was very hurt. Even still, you'd probably back him to survive if the KD came earlier. The glove thing was a myth. As 1 poster said, it added no more than 10 second to the interval, thats it. The smelling salts, however, were illigal in Britain back then. That should be the main focus of discussion. In all, the better man won. But Cooper had him rocked thats for sure

 

In the FOTC, Frazier buckled and staggered him early in round 11, then decked him at the outset of round 15. Ali got through it both times. I believe he also would have managed to survive even if that hammer from Sir 'Enery had nailed him ten seconds into round four. He was on the attack almost immediately after round five was under way. Catching him was one thing. Finishing him was something else.

Doug Jones nearly toppled him with a hard right just 45 seconds into the opening round, and found himself immediately tangled up in a neutralizing hug when attempting to follow up.

Watch from 2:16 of the following clip, and you will see that young Clay already possessed the survival skills to get though any attempt Cooper made to finish him off.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TZyfT_zU7A[/ame]

 

Sonny Liston really should have knocked that kid out.
I know Clay was growing and potentially improved rapidly from fight to fight, but Liston the great left-hooker should have crushed any young fighter who'd been downed hard by Henry Cooper in his previous fight.

 

Great clip of that fight we all saw on free TV,that day.
This fight on this post more than ever reinforces my firm conviction that the Joe louis of the Max Baer,Schmeling#2 era,would have kod this Cassius Clay version of Ali.
Of this statement I have no doubt. Louis in his murderous peak was lithe as a tiger,and never, ever off balance. Once he catches Ali with his coil-spring combinations ,Ali is done.
I truly believe this objective observation I am posting. This film just confirms vividly the
superiority of the great Brown Bomber ,Joe Louis. And Louis's jab was much more effective than the jab of Ken Norton,which Norton employed so effectively with Eddie Futch's
instructions. Yep, Louis kos Clay/Ali,both at their best. Thanks for this video....

 

A little unfair dont you think burt, comparing a prime joe louis to a non-prime clay/ali, although your entitled to your opinion as am i, therefore,going down that train of reasoning, i contend the Ali of the Williams fight makes the Louis of Walcott 1 eat leather

It works both ways :good

 

J, How " unfair "am I to compare the Joe Louis of the Max Baer fight in 1935
when Louis was 21 years old, to the Cassius Clay fight with Sir Enry in 1963,when ALI was also 21 years old ? J,how am i unfair to compare this Ali with Henry Cooper with the trip-hammer punching Louis,also 21 years old in 1935? That is my opinion J, based on what I observed wartching again this film above...And remember R, Joe Louis was seldom if ever cut in his prime ala Henry Cooper. Leading up to the cut Henry gave as good as he received
until his tender skin deceived Henry. If Louis hurts Ali, Louis finishes him I truly believe ! :good

 

I dont know how, but i only seen schmeling 2 in your post. i musta missed Baer. That, to me, would be round about joes peak, whereas the clip that i seen was of the jones fight, a good 3yrs off Alis peak. Maybe we've got our wires crossed here. As for the age comparison, i dont think that really counts as people peak at different ages i.e. i think Lewis is a better fighter than Tyson but if they met at 21yr old, there would only be one winner.

 

Maybe the Cooper fight was an essential part of young Clays learning curve - Who knows, without the Cooper fight Clay may of left himself open to be stopped by Liston..

 

:huh I'm stunned! That was a serious knockdown,look how he crashes into the ropes.I'm Ali's biggest fan and just because Ali got up relatively quickly doesn't mean to say he wasn't badly hurt.He had amazing powers of recovery and in my opinion if the knockdown had happened earlier he would have got through it. But pal that was a seriously serious knockdown!

 

Upon rewatching and rereading his autobiography, he was badly hurt. Not hurt enough to be in danger of being stopped, but his bell was straight up rung. I think its beneath the trouble Frazier had him in, but yes, more serious than my initial post opined.

 

Angelo Dundee has admitted that he doctored the glove to buy Ali time, so I would say the myth making is with those who don't want to admit that Cooper had Ali on ***** street.

 

He got caught with a perfect punch, Schmelling put a prime Louis on the deck too...Ali got up and won in the round he predicted pre fight. Joe Louis K.O's Ali when Foreman, Shavers, couldn't? Louis doesn't have Foreman/Shavers power and he would have a hard tuime landing combinations, that's for sure.

 

I think he was pretty badly hurt, at least his demenour and actions in the corner would suggest that. I thought they timed the interval years ago and there was only an extra ten second lapse? I'm not 100% certain but that is what i heard.