Jack Johnson would beat all the ATG swarmers

Either that, or pelvic thrusts.

http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/oldtimer/choynski.html

 

Nah, that just one his many excuses for losing, drawing, or taking mediocre talents the distance

 

" The ambush right wobbled Jeffries in the 16th round of their fight. His teeth were imbedded into his lip with the pain so acute that he could not continue. A knife was produced between rounds with two teeth cut out. Spectators wildly cheered the underdog Choynski and his defensive tactics. Spectators booed the draw decision, and the San Francisco Chronicle felt Choynksi deserved a close victory. The referee/judge stated that Jeffries scored the only two knockdowns, both early rounds, and was the more aggressive pugilist. The ambush Choynski right, after a series of left jabs, wobbled a frustrated and surprised Johnson, who desperately hoped to clinch the Jewish pugilist, but instead fell to the ground and could not rise for the 10-count. Both Johnson and Choynksi were arrested on the spot for engaging in an illegal prizefight. As cellmates, Choynski, explained to Johnson that he should be more patient and dictate the pace through defense. Johnson would later state that the knockout loss was the best thing to happen for him "

 

I believe this part highlighted to be nothing more than a myth. Johnson didnt need Choynski to tell him anything, and i dont see how it is possible that Choynski did tell him anything, based on Choynski's telling of the story. Johnson, i am sure, learned plenty from the loss, but it was through experience, not actually teaching as is commonly understood.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/40760648?searchTerm=choynski johnson&searchLimits=

choynski's version backs this up.

Note also, that choynski refers to Johnson as a giant and that he is spotting him weight and size, as well as age. No mention how much, but it seems to have been substantial. By the way, much is often made of Johnson's inexperience (perhaps correctly) but so far as Choynski goes, this might just be one of the greatest victories of all time. In fact, it is a victory of era vs era similar to when Big George beat Moorer or old Lennox beating Vitali.

 

Whatever Choynski told Johnson about boxing in jail did little to help him in the next few matches that took place after their match in 1901. See the results in 1901 for Johnson.

McVey is desperately trying to convince anyone willing to read his drivel that Johnson was also a super middle weight when this match happened. This is highly unlikely. As we know chins do not improve as a fighter moves up in weight divisions. The reverse is true.

Choynski who likely weighed between 160-170 pounds when the match happened, produced an early KO over Johnson who had 24+ recorded fight quite a few battle royals under his belt prior to the match. If Choynski could spark Johnson early, many experienced and skilled punchers could do the same. Sticking with the theme of the thread, many ATG swarmers like Dempsey, Marciano, and Frazier could hit.

 

Usually chins do get better as a fighter adds weight and strength

 

I believe this part highlighted to be nothing more than a myth. Johnson didnt need Choynski to tell him anything, and i dont see how it is possible that Choynski did tell him anything, based on Choynski's telling of the story. Johnson, i am sure, learned plenty from the loss, but it was through experience, not actually teaching as is commonly understood.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/40760648?searchTerm=choynski johnson&searchLimits=

choynski's version backs this up.

Note also, that choynski refers to Johnson as a giant and that he is spotting him weight and size, as well as age. No mention how much, but it seems to have been substantial. By the way, much is often made of Johnson's inexperience (perhaps correctly) but so far as Choynski goes, this might just be one of the greatest victories of all time. In fact, it is a victory of era vs era similar to when Big George beat Moorer or old Lennox beating Vitali.

 

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/40754769?searchTerm=choynski &searchLimits=sortby=dateAsc

And for what it is worth, choynski says taht the weighed 161 lbs when he KOd Jack Johnson.

 

I put it up because I thought it might be of interest, I am neither endorsing it, nor denying it.
The myth that Johnson and Choynski sparred in the prison came about because of this photo.

This content is protected

In actual fact ,after it was taken, they were segregated, Choynski was afforded appreciably better treatment than Johnson.
The rest of that link I posted is full of excuses why Choynski lost twice to Joe Goddard,Sharkey etc,I take it with a pinch of salt.
Choynski Johnson
32 22
5' 10 1/2" 6' 1/4"

64 fights Approx a 1/3 of that

No spin ,no slant , just the facts.


Of course silly bollocks Mendoza has jumped in ,putting both feet firmly in his big, vacuous mouth. I have said nothing about the weights regarding the link ,and I await any definitive information, that an objective poster may provide.

I did notice that at least one Newspaper thought Choynski should have gotten the decision over Jeffries,according to the link,and ,I also noticed neither Mendoza, or you mentioned it.:think

 

Marciano....Dempsey...Frazier..etc. would have walked through Johnson like a hot knife through butter...

 

Thats your opinion ,and you are entitled to it.:good

 

I am undecided on the Jeffries Choynski decision. Jeffries certainly doesnt deny that it was a close fight, and i dont think he would have argued if the decision had gone against him, although it seems that a draw was probably the fairest result.

Without adding fuel to the fire, i do say, that the weight of opponents who drop other opponents is grossly overestimated by many posters. In fact, the closest Jeffries came to being knocked out, was by a super middleweight. Obviously that same person took it to the next level against Johnson.

 

What does that say in relation to Choynski stopping Johnson?
Since Jeffries acknowledged that Choynski hit him harder than anyone,including Fitzsimmons,I think it speaks on two levels ,it gives kudos to Jeffries chin ,and detracts from the negativity of Johnson being kod by Choynski

.I think there is no doubt that Jeffries was between 50 and 60 lbs heavier than Choynski whereas Johnson 's weight was probably not appreciably higher ,if we look at his weights in fights chronologically.
of course Jeffries as we understand it , [new fights appear all the time], was rather raw at that stage, even so, a man 50/63 lbs lighter went 20 rds with him to a draw ,and a couple of papers thought the smaller man had done enough to win,

 

what does it say?

I think you have it right. There is no shame in getting KOd by Choynski (at least no more shame than getting kod or TKOd by say: Jim Flynn, Max Schmelling, Larry Holmes, Oliver McCall, Ross Purity, Chris Byrd, Buster Douglas, and the list goes on and on.