Langford or Pep, who has the better resume?

Considering Langford age and weight gain in retrospect to his prime then yes, his win over Wills is close Peps over Saddlers.

 

Langford carried Ketchel, read the Langford book.

 

beating gans at age 17 absolutely outstrips any single accomplishment of pep's

 

Depends if you think Langford beat a fighter as good as Saddler, I suppose.

 

I think that's fair I have no strong views ,just playing devils advocate really.

 

Here's my unsolicited opinion. (Others, please feel free to rearrange, add or subtract as you see fit. Some arduous yard work has left me too fatigued to concentrate on this as intently as I'd prefer.):

1) KO 19 Wills, February, 11, 1916. And in Harry's own New Orleans at that. Sam was a road warrior, who produced this one when he was pushing 33, with Wills at age 26.

2) KO 14 Wills, November 26, 1914, at Verona, California. Sam was already 31 years old, Harry 25. That's what's so staggering about the pair of knockouts Langford posted over Wills. Harry might have been expected to be at his physical peak when they happened.

3) KO 2 McFadden. His second major knockout win after Sweeney was a monster. Elbows was only stopped three times, by peak Gans, Charley Hitte in 19 rounds, and when Sam put him to sleep in McFadden's final stoppage defeat.

4) KO 2 Flowers, Atlanta, Georgia, June 5, 1922. At age 39, and virtually blind, Langford had no business pulling this one off.

5) KO 8 Fireman Flynn III, March 17, 1910, Vernon, California. Sam had just turned 27 years of age in time for the only scheduled 45 rounder of his career before the movie cameras. The Fireman would follow this by embarking on a career best 10 (KO 9)-0-0-1ND streak which would carry him to his 1912 title shot against Johnson. A case can be made that this was Sam at his peak, and we have it on film.

6) KO 7 Jeannette, May 12, 1916, Syracuse, New York. In 165 recorded bouts (almost certainly not his full total), Joe was only knocked out twice, once as a relative novice in 1905, and here by Sam.

7) KO 3 Gunboat Smith, October 20, 1914, Boston, Massachusetts. Since January 1912, Gunner had officially dropped just one of 35 bouts (that one being a DQ to Carp in London), and had generated 19 knockouts in that stretch. Among his victims were Moran, Willard, Pelkey, Fireman Flynn, Bombardier Wells and Sam himself (in a dubious decision ruling by referee Dick Fleming). Following this knockout, Smith would go undefeated in his next 16 bouts, and decision Bat Levinski over 20 rounds the following January. Langford wiped out the best version of Gunboat Smith to ever step foot in the ring.

8) KO 13 McVey, December 26, 1912, Sydney Australia. McVey was only stopped five times in 96 fights. Jack Johnson took him out in 1904 when he was a teenager, 20 seconds before the final bell in round 20. Wills stopped him in five when he was disallowed a claimed foul blow in 1918. Jeannette outlasted him in that record setting 49 round marathon in Paris. And in their previous bout that October in Perth, Langford stopped McVey in 11 when the loser again claimed a foul blow that was disallowed, and refused to continue. No controversy has been ascribed to Langford's knockout of McVey in Sydney, however. This was Langford's final match before turning 30.

9) W 15 Gans, December 8, 1903, Boston, Massacusetts. The mitigating factor of an overnight train ride immediately following a six rounder The Old Master had with Dave Holly in Philly the day before mitigates the significance of this win for Sam somewhat, but it's still impressive considering the massive gulf in experience between the two, coupled with the fact of who Langford was facing, long train ride or not. (Sam himself always said he considered Gans the GOAT.)

10) W 20 Jeannette, December 20, 1913, Paris, France. Performing for the Pathe movie camera, this was an extremely critical bout for both men. Johnson had successfully defended his title in Paris the previous date. It looked like there might be a real chance the winner of Langford-Jeannette X could get a shot at Lil' Artha' and Sam was the one who came through, pounding Joe into the ground thrice in a torrid round 13.

 

[quote="Marvelous";9618326]Langford carried Ketchel, read the Langford book.[/quote]
no need to read the biased book which was written by Langfords reletive. i prefer to go by the newspapers of the day and many reporters at ringside thought different to the book and had Ketchel the winner with the bout being halted just in time to save Langford from almost certain defeat as Ketchel was coming on really strong.. so there is two sides to that story which boil down to which one do you believe. a reletive of Langfords who was born some 40yrs after the event or a ringside reporter.

 

your forgetting to mention that most of those listed above also hold KO victories over Langford or at least avenged any defeat. Also Langford in a similar way to Manny Pacquiao & Thomas Hearns grew into those weight classes with his youth and stature being a huge advantage for him...

McVey - never world champion and fairly limited.

Wills - never world champion and in Langfords own words, "would have little chance against Dempsey who is the greatest fighter i ever seen".

Flynn - never world champion and very limited. was KOd in 1rd by Dempsey.

Jeanette - never world champion.

Gunboat Smith - never world champion & very limited

McFadden - never world champion a lightweight who would be a midget compared to Langford. McFadden beat no-one of note during his career.
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Let's be realistic here instead of over exaggerating, Langford grew into those fights and was no doubt a great fighter but his record based on longevity, win loss and overall does not match up to the record of Willie Pep no matter which way you look at it.

 

kiss assing trying to look for help Nat Fleischer could not help you out on this one JAB but that is the way you work.. you love to trash all great fighters from the past and glorify Langford because you have read Thee book as you call it. you trashed Marciano, Tunney, Frazier & Dempsey claiming over and over again that they are not Top 10 fighter even claiming Wlad Klitschko beats them and also claiming Tommy Morrison to be up there with the all time greats your comments (howlers) on the other site are legend.

 

As duodenum mentioned, I don't think it's an issue of being shot so much as an issue of fatigue that leads to the win not being quite as good as it looks on paper. But still a damn fine result nonetheless. :good

It's worth noting that Dave Holly was no slouch himself by any stretch, notching wins over both Gans and Langford in the following months after his 1903 loss to Gans. Having to turn around and fight a young lion like Langford, even if he was green, the very next day after a long train ride is a hell of a task.

 

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