Why is everyone saying Pac is now to big for JMM?

No, but they're the only ones who use those graphics. The screenshot you showed of Pac/Mosely had HBO graphics. The fight was on Showtime, they use completely different graphics.

The Examiner is not exactly a non biased source.

Of course they use graphics. But now we're supposed to believe that Showtime used HBO graphics and had a picture of Cowboy stadium in the background despite the fact that the fight was in Vegas. I watched that fight live, I don't remember them showing fight night weights.

 

If you think it and all the multiple sites with the same image are incorrect, please feel free to find sources which disagree/disprove. It means little to me, as it wasn't in and of itself a point about anything other than Pacquiao's in-the-ring weight, which is a point that does not stand alone since I got the Margo/Pac screen capture personally off an official broadcast and it's the same listed in-the-ring weight as the Mosley TOTT for Pac, the point stands. As stated, I cannot recall where I got the Pac/Mosley image, or if I took it myself, but it's a moot point considering the Pac/Margo weight back up that Pacquiao and Marquez are fighting within three pounds of each other on the night as of Katsidis and at least Margo.

 

That is not a healthy looking dude.

 

If come fight time Manny would outweigh JMM for a couple of pounds (the most probably), then I would say Manny really is way too big, big time, for JMM. atsch

 

Incidentally, perhaps Requiem4Hvywht can confirm or debunk that image's stats personally...if he comes by the thread. :conf

 

I think they meant commercial wise

 

Okay, so I get that vast majority of you have never boxed, and are probably couch experts. But is high school biology outside of your intellectual reach as well?

Let's break this down again:

Marquez: A typical Mexican fighter, ie. tendency to get fat, muscle tissue quickly gets covered with fat, on regular diet with no cutting they walk around with 15-30 pounds extra padding. Fighting at 135 Marquez cuts fat, which in turn boosts his speed, although it makes him more vulnerable to punches to the body. It also improves his endurance. To make 135 he pretty much drains himself of all fat/water that he could, re-hydrates with special drinks and IV, fight night comes in at his prime. There is very little muscle mass loss required for Marquez to make 135, thus he comes in at his best in this particular weight class.

Pacquao: Team of professionals working with him include a dietician and a strength/conditioning coach that had him gain solid muscle mass all the way up to 145-150 lbs with practically no fat gains (HOW THE ****?). Anyone that ever trained or worked out knows that you can't gain just muscle, fat grows with it, ie: if your natural state is 20% body fat, then the new weight you gain, even with flawless diet and exercise is still going to be 20% fat, so out of 10 lbs of gain 2 will be fat. Anyhow, I am not going to get into HGH/Steroid discussion, as I am positive ALL pro Athletes at top level use it. The point i am making is that Pacuao is by muscle mass a velterweight right now. If the fight was at 140, he would be cutting 5 pounds of muscle, which is detrimental as **** to an athlete's strength. A fight at 135, Marquez's natural weight, would make Pac cut 10 lbs of muscle and have him come in at a disadvantage to himself but at a fair play according to the weight class rules.

Now, for those of you who wonder if I am right, just look into what Pac is doing. He is utilizing the very scheme I just explained to beat bigger, stronger fighters. Cotto was a corpse in his last 3 fights at 140. His body matured and as thus he was no longer able to make it to 140, even by giving away a litre of blood before the weight in. Thus he HAD to switch to 147, which was still not enough for his adult frame. Knowing this (and I won't even mention the brutal KO loss to Margarito that completely destroyed Cotto psychologically), team Pac made Cotto fight at catch weight at 145. I didn't doubt for a second that Cotto would lose: He had to cut muscle while Pac came in at his most comfortable PURE MUSCLE WEIGHT.
Moving on. Same scenario with Joshua Clottey. Antonio Margarito. Shane Mosley. The list will go on. However, when the situation was reversed, Pac had a chance to prove me wrong by going down to 135, or at least 140. But he didn't. Or rather his team didn't. Because I am right, and Ariza knows as much as I do about physiology, even tho he probably went down the nutritionist route which limited biology to one year at university/college. He wants his fighter at his best, and Marquez at his worst.

Now, I am not a *****. Floyd is a POS. But people need to educate themselves on the subject of physiology before they call Paquao the god of boxing. He is fighting at optimal conditions. The 5000+ calories he eats to keep the muscle weight on allow him to have such limitless stamina and strength in punches. He is tailoring the weight classes to his advantage, and thus in all likelihood will remain undefeated. I give him a good chance against Mayweather.

Is what he is doing wrong? Meh, who's to judge. He is a big attraction, pays the most money, and a decent enough human being to not completely murder his overmatched opponents. For that he deserves credit. But don't even for a second think that he was at a disadvantage against any of the guys he fought recently. Trust me, he had the best conditions possible.

As for Pac vs Sergio...Sergio at 147 or 150 is a travesty. The man gained substantial muscle mass over the last 2 years as he fully developed, and he would be lucky to come in at 60% of his former self if he squizes into 150 lbs for a fight with Pac, even if he rehydrates to 170 come fight night. The starved muscle will betray him and Pac will get another top notch scalp to add to his collection.

 

A couple thoughts here:

1. Are you suggesting welterweights are at a disadvantage fighting against other welterweights? :huh I'll cede you the point about Cotto even though I don't fully agree with it, but Mosley and Clottey were both at their optimal weight when Pacquiao fought them, and he even gave Margarito an extra 3 pounds.

2. How compromised was Pacquiao when he last fought Marquez at 130 and rehydrated 16lbs overnight? He certainly was draining a ton of muscle weight then, wasn't he?

 

1. Depends on their body type, age, and most of all on their overall frame and genetics. There is the so called "Optimal muscle weight" at which you carry the most muscle your body can handle efficiently (and heart and lungs can supply with oxygen), and thus you are literally at your strongest. It might not necessarily be your most comfortable weight, and you might have to cut a lot of fat to get there, but if you're predisposed to walk around with fat on your frame, cutting would hurt you a lot less than someone who's optimal muscle weight is a division higher. So basically every case is different.
A good example would be Bernard Hopkins. He came up to light heavy and destroyed one of the strongest fighters in there, Antonio Tarver, because he finally hit his optimal muscle weight and was feeling his best. Another example: Ricky Hatton, that would walk around at roughly 190 lbs but would cut down without visible side affects to 140, because his optimal muscle weight was around there. Now, Clottey, Margarito and Cotto are bigger guys with wider frames, and thus have more muscle mass by default. For them, cutting to make a lower weight class limit is weakening them considerably Clottey's ideal muscle weight should be around 154 lbs, same with Cotto, and Margarito might be even higher, close to 160. The reason they cut the weight is to have the height/reach advantage over smaller opponents.

2. Yes he was, but wasn't that something like 7 years ago? Pac still had some wiggle room due to his relatively young age. The same thing at this age would probably near kill him.
However, he also didn't have the same amount of muscle mass he has now, and there is a chance he wasn't cutting muscle, as he started working with Ariza since the fight with Diaz, no? I am not really sure, I don't follow pac's life, just his fights. So odds are he also was cutting fat. Muscle doesn't form out of nothing, so he must have had some fat tissue to lose when he was cutting. But yes, generally you're right, he was at more of a disadvantage than Marquez in their first fight, however his advantage will be greater in their third also because of the age (Marquez is 38 turning 39, is he not?)

 

I'm talking about the Mosley training camp bud. It's possible that is Pac gets older his body is more slowly but surely getting adjusted to the weight, hence no more eating himself to stay at 147. I guess I'm wrong with that fight night pic but I don't remember seeing that then.

 

Pac is bigger than Marquez. If he wasnt bigger they would fight in 135 limit. Fighting at 147 give Pac advantage. Its simple.

 

How do you cut 10lbs of muscle? That would be water weight, no? And I know muscle is largely water, but there's no way Pac would be cutting 10lbs of muscle. That's just not the proper word. He'd be cutting weight the same way Mosley does.

 

Fighters go up in weight to match their opponents fight night weight, not weigh in weight. If its only weigh in weight, they wont bother bulking up and just advoid dehydrating. Instead what they do is bloat up + dehydrate to get close to their opponents fight night weight.

Since Pac is a small WW, JMM wont need to bulk up, therefore wont be bloated. He will come in the same weight as he has for his last fight, as will Pac and there will be 3lbs separating the 2.

 

Pac is about 3lbs bigger than JMM, if Pac dehydrated himself as much as JMM does, he will be about 138lbs. Pac doesnt wanna dehydrate...simple as that, he doesnt want the hassle. Traning camp is about technique rather than loosing weight. JMM wont have to dehydrate either.

 

its in 140? if not pac is a *****