Greb vs langford somewhere between middleweight and heavyweight

Don't forget that Langford is widely believed to have "carried" fighters when he was at middlewight. He was scaring everyone and having trouble getting the top middles to fight him. Ketchel was accused of ducking him (finally gave him a 6 rounder late in his reign in which I agree with many who claimed that Sam held back) and Papke was running scared.

This poem should put it into perspective. You may have already seen it:

"Who’ll Fight Sam Langford!
(A Pugilistic Nursery Rhyme)

I.
Who’ll fight Sam Langford?
“Not I,” said Stanley K.,
“Britt has taken me away
And I’m signed to do a play.
Then I’m going to the hay.
I’ll not fight Sam Langford.”

II.
“Who’ll fight Sam Langford?
“Not I,” said Jack the Twin.
“I am careful of my chin
And I’m pretty near all in,
And suicide’s a sin.
I’ll not fight Sam Langford.”

III.
Who’ll fight Sam Langford?
“Not I,” is Papke’s wail,
“I’m a lily white and pale
And my life is not for sale;
Why I’d sooner got to jail.
I’ll not fight Sam Langford.”

IV.
Who’ll fight Sam Langford
“Not I,” said Kid McCoy;
“I’m a pretty game old boy,
But this unrefined employ
I will leave for hoi polloi.
I’ll not fight Sam Langford.”

V.
Who’ll fight Sam Langford?
“Not I,” said poor old Fitz.
“Though I’d fight for just six bits,
Still I haven’t lost my wits;
I’ll preserve my speckled mitts.
I’ll not fight Sam Langford.

VI.
Who’ll fight Sam Langford?
“Not I,” said Hugo Kelly.
“He would pound me to a jelly
And I’d lose some vermicalli.
Not for me. What ta helli?
I’ll not fight Sam Langford.”

VII.
Who’ll fight Sam Langford?
“Not I,” said Joe da Grim.
“I no like to fight with him
Cause he shutta up my glim
And da chances are too slim
I’ll notta fight Sam Langford.”

VIII.
Who’ll fight Sam Langford?
“Not I,” Al Kaufman said.
“You are crazy in the head.
Chase yourself and go to bed.
I ain’t anxious to be dead.
I’ll not fight Sam Langford.”

IX.
“Who’ll fight Sam Langford?
“Not us.” The low brows cried.”
And they turned around to hide.
“Nix: the color line is wide,
And we’re going to stay inside.
We’ll not fight Sam Langford.”

 

Harry Greb's Reply :
"Why I will fight Sam Langford ,
I'll whip him anytime,
Sam can't hurt, what he can't hit,
And I proved this all the time !

 

Love Greb but he could not beat Norfolk ... a prime Langford was better in everyway from the Kid and would be too strong, too fast and too hard hitting ...if Sam was trained to fight in 1910 shape bad night for Harry ...

 

Kudos Burt! :smoke

 

lEST WE FORGET !
Harry Greb did beat the BIGGER [10-15 pounds]Kid Norfolk in their first fight. I thought this post would match Langford and Greb at their best equal weights,about 160-5 pounds. Why should Greb have to always in a fantasy bout be matched against bigger men ? Would you in a fantasy fight match Ray Robinson against an Ezzard Charles or Archie Moore,or for that matter Gene Tunney ? The answer is no ! At 160-5 pounds Greb was at his peak almost impossible to beat in a 15 round bout.
At his best Greb easily licked the tough Jack Dillon who never got a shot at his contemporary Sam Langford when they were at equal weights in theearly 1900s. Langford at his best was about 175,with the upper frame of a heavyweight,whilst Greb was truly a middleweight 158-to 165 when he fought over the weight...

 

Who’ll fight Sam Langford?
“Not I,” said Papa Jack
Though a middleweight way back,
Now the guy hits like a Mack
And the color line’s just fine if it’s not me.
I’ll not fight Sam Langford.”

 

Tough competitive fight both proved efficient vs bigger men and as far as styles, Greb may smother many of Langfords strengths but not all and this would not be a fight without danger for Harry but Tunney was a big tough man and strong and willowy and Harry did well with him. Sam was an explosive aggressive freak but this match is against a quick and brilliant man who knew how to break a fighters rhythm and keep them off balance....tough match for both great great fighters.

 

Look it is a tremendous match up .. the question is if Greb is able to out speed and out hustle him over the distance or would Sam be too strong and too good and wear him down .. I like Langford, especially the longer the fight goes distance wise ..

 

Harry Greb's forte was amazing handspeed and speed afoot. Gaining an extra
5-10 pounds would slow him down,and take away his main attribute,getting to the other guy before he get's to you. A British opponent said of fighting Harry Greb ," I thought a truckload of gloves came crashing down from the ceiling on me ",Unquote.... Mix this with amazing stamina ,and an iron chin, made this " seven year itch ", a unique guy to fight, to say the least...

 

luf, nice to chat with you, but i don't understand two contradictions you cite.
You say "the two greatest middleweights are probably Monzon and Hagler ".
Then you say 'I doubt that that Monzon and Hagler,would be favored against the Windmill ".
Verily I say to U L, Monzon and Hagler NEVER ventured into the lightheavyweight ranks,taking on the big boys. Not Once. They knew their limitations.They gained their reputations against guys their size,wisely so...
The truly FEARLESS Greb crashed into the lightheavyweight and heavyweight division,whipping the likes of [ it bears repeating],Tunney, Gibbons,Loughran
Dillon, Battling Levinsky, Rosenbloom, Billy Miske, Gunboat Smith, Bill Brennan,and yes a prime Mickey Walker, who I would favor over Monzon or Hagler,by the way. What makes U think that a Monzon or Hagler who COMBINED,had half the fights of the Pittsburgh Windmill, was a greater middleweight than Harry Greb, who licked the great lightheavies that Monzon or Hagler would have never approached ? These two Monzon and Hagler were great in their time,whilst the Iron CityExpress was the greatest of alltime...Cheers L...

 

Luf,if U say "Greb is arguably the greatest to ever fight as a middleweight " ,
and then ask the question,"but as a middleweight,is he the greatest middleweight, isn't that a contradiction in terms ? I am as befuddled as Greb's opponents...
I look at it this way : Being that we can never actually match fighters from different era's, in my inner mind ,I ask, could the prime Harry Greb [when he fought 45 fights in ONE year] have licked all of Monzon's or Haglers opponen ? The answer has to be YES.
Could Monzon or Hagler if courageous enough, took on and whipped a Gene Tunney, Tommy Gibbons [watch Tommy flatten Jack Bloomfield in London
at age 34],Tommy Loughran, Jack Dillon, Battling Levinsky, a 10-15 pound
heavier Battling Norfolk, GENE TUNNEY, Maxie Rosenbloom [whipped the great John Henry Lewis, 3 times], Billy Miske, Bill Brennan, Mickey Walker,and dozens more great fighters,as Harry Greb did ? The answer is a resounding NO. As I have posted if a Vito Antefuermo could give Marvin Hagler two tough fights,what would the marauding Windmill do to Antefuermo? With great respect Luf.....:good