Surely Hopkins surpassed his great rival the other night?

sure holyfield ain't ****ing prime but he was still a top heavyweight at the time, and it was roy jones first ****in fight at heavyweight. Doesn't matter if most thought ruiz was a paper champ in that era because a paper champ in that era would have been a serious contender during this era.

the fact that toney got busted and you downright admit it, nulls your whole argument. I'm a fan of toney but a cheat is a cheat! Why don't you make pac or other roid users who have been successful as your example?:deal

 

Lots of dumb in this thread

 

Some points:

1. Jones went from fighting 154lbs as a 20yo to fighting a 235lber at HW, this is bigger than Pacquaio going from 112lbs as a 20yo to 150lbs later in his career.

2. Jones won every round against Ruiz, none of the numerous ranked HWs Ruiz has fought before or since managed this. Toney only won 8-4, and Toney is an ATG himself

 

Hopkins was 28 and wouldn't lose again for another 14years, Jones dominated him with a broken hand

 

Because Pac isn't a roid user you ****ing spermicide. If he is, where is the proof? When did he get busted? Idiot.

Toney beat the stuffing out of Ruiz, a fat flabby tired past-prime version of Toney, and although the win is rightly disregarded in terms of significance because James failed a drug test... it still happened. An old fat Toney beat Ruiz up, roids or no roids. Roids didn't turn Fernando Vargas into an unbeatable monster when Oscar knocked him out, they didn't turn Shane Mosley into an invincible titan when Oscar boxed the chops off him and got robbed, and they didn't turn James Toney into a prime Mike Tyson when he was god knows how many pounds overweight either!

No win over Holyfield this century has meant much. He has been a shadow since Lewis 2 IMO, the guy's prime was the late 80s/early 90s FFS.

 

I'm not really interested in debating whether Jones or Pacquiao produced the greater feats of weight-jumping, because for me that issue is completely conclusive in Pacquiao's favour, not even remotely debatable, and anyone who disagrees is either wildly irrational or in biased denial or is very new to this sport. That's more or less all I'll ever have to say about a flyweight that wins world titles at welterweight and higher. :good

And Toney is not an ATG at heavyweight. Never was. He was fat. And he convincingly beat Ruiz. That point can never be overlooked in any Jones-Ruiz discussion.

 

This win is more about his age than the opponent. Pascal held a title, yeah, but hes not a great fighter and this win is more of a personal accomplishment for Hopkins than it is a great win on his resume in terms of who he beat. I have him pretty even with Roy tbh.

 

Also, something to consider is that Jones and Hopkins primes are a decade apart.

 

Don't give me the party line BS that Jones dominated him.. with a broken hand. He didn't dominate anything that night.

 

Except they aren't.

Jones's prime was 1993-2003, with his absolute peak years being 1994-1998.

Hopkins's prime was 1995-2004, with his absolute peak years being 1997-2001.

 

you're a ****ing dick

 

the ruiz win is the most overrated win in modern boxing

 

Bernards prime was 1998-2007
Roys prime was 1993-2002

Ok, maybe not a decade but 5 years at least

Their best performances were more than 10 years apart
Roy-Toney 1994
And Hopkins-Tarver 2006..Trinidad was 2001 so if thats your pick thats still 7 years (I dont feel thats his best performance given Tito came up in weight and was considerably smaller, Oscar too)

 

No way in hell was B-Hop in his prime when he didn't have the energy to dominate Jermain Taylor, a fighter he would've made mincemeat of in the late 90s. :nono

 

<2003 RJJ easily takes the cake.
>2003, Hopkins did a lot better than Floyd, that's for sure.

Overall, imho, RJJ's career was greater than Hopkins, as when both were in their primes, RJJ simply eclipsed Hopkins. What happened after that... It's not that consequential imho. No one would, for example, take Sugar Ray Leonard late loss as a blemish in his fantastic career. Well, I see RJJ in the same light, his late career does not diminish what he accomplished earlier.

And about Hopkins, his performance at older age is indeed impressive, but so is, for example, George Foreman's. Does GF late career eclipse Ali's career?

I see both, prime and late career, as two distinct things. IMHO, legacy is more about the prime & greatness and not so much about just staying in the game longer and having a very long career... Hopkins didn't go up heavyweight to win a HW title... If he did, like RJJ, and still was able to stay on his A game, then we could have had a good comparison... RJJ was never the same after putting on and then losing all that weight...