Gene Tunney: Is he a top 10 ATG heavyweight?

When you talk about "better competition" and "better fighters" that's more of a "HEAD TO HEAD" standard than anything else.

I think Liston's "years waiting for a shot" and "beat all the top contenders" is a bit of a myth, or gets overplayed at least.

Tunney earned his shot at Dempsey the same way.

 

Actually, I take back what i said. I never realised just how many heavyweights Tunney actually fought. Winert, Delaney, Carpentier, Madden, Risko, O Dowd, Burke, Spalla, Jamieson. Not all top 10 but several were top 10 at some stage and some of the light heavys he fought also fought their way into top 10.

 

Tunney is a Top 10 fighter in my opinion.. as he was one of if not thee most intelligent fighter ever. he had fantastic skills was fleet-footed with a devastating right-cross and excellent left-jab, he was intelligent and clever enough to be able to master Harry Greb by working out Greb's style and beating him. Tunney beat master boxers in Loughran, Gibbons,Greb, Levinsky & Delaney he withstood and mastered the rampaging Dempsey. his skills was incredible compared to other heavyweights as is his overall record of 66-1-2 from middleweight to heavyweight... Without doubt Gene Tunney is a brilliant legendary fighter and a Top 10 Heavyweight great..

Boxing Historian Tracy Callis rates Tunney No6 Heavyweight ever
Boxing Historian Nat Fleischer rates Tunney No8 Heavyweight ever
Charley Rose ranks Tunney No6 Heavyweight ever
WBM Poll in 1974 rated Tunney No7 Heavyweight ever
Nat Loubet Historian rated Tunney No6 Heavyweight ever
Historian Bert Sugar rates Tunney No5 Heavyweight ever
Historian John Durant rates Tunney No5 Heavyweight ever
Bill Brennan rates Tunney No5 Heavyweight ever
Historian Arthur Harris rates Tunney No5 Heavyweight ever.

But what you are saying is all the above Boxing historians are wrong and you are right... You are a "HATER" JAB and it is now well known that you are a hater.. you hate all the great fighters from yesteryear, your posts all point to you being a hater, you claim Dempsey, Tyson, Frazier, Marciano & Tunney are not Top 10 fighters yet Tommy Morrison is up there with the all time greats, you hate on Willie Pep & Sandy Sadler and your only imput on this forum is tolling and ridicule of anyone who praises a boxer pre-1992.... you claim i have been destroyed on the Dempsey thread yet you could not be further from the truth. many knowledgable posters have voiced the same opinions as myself and made their case to prove you wrong and show you to be a HATER... you started this thread and your only case for Tunney not being a Top 10 Heavyweight is "He was not a heavyweight" Gene Tunney was The Heavyweight Champion of the World you stupid clown with All those Boxing Historians rating him as a Heavyweight...would Tommy Morrison be a heavyweight without his steroids ?

 

You realize most who you quoted did so generations ago or in the case of Bert (Sugar) have had a few too many ... again, no doubt Tunney was a great fighter ... just a top ten heavyweight of all time, to me a stretch ..

off the top of my head ..

Ali
Holmes
Louis
Lewis
Bowe
Tyson
Holyfield
Frazier
Wlad
Vitali

all had the size and skills sets to match up successfullly against Tunney and this is without even diging ...

 

Tunney would have no trouble with the behemoths you have listed here.. Wlad, Vitali, Bowe & Lewis all had terrible footwork and would never land a glove on Tunney. i would fancy Tunney to win them all by a wide magin or maybe even KO them.. if Dempsey could not KO Tunney then those 4 have no chance.

 

I can respect the stance that Tunney doesn't have the resume to be top 10, but the question I have is: So Liston can benefit from conjecture here, but Tunney can't? :think

I think Gene could've defended the title for years and racked up defenses, but he doesn't (and shouldn't) get the credit as if he did. He'd be comfortably in the top 10 by most contemporary fans' measure had he actually done it. Yet Liston does get these sky high ratings now for rising to the top in a weak era (and looking good on film doing it, which any top 20, top 30 heavyweight ought to have), defending his title once against the same guy he blew out for it, and then quitting against a green Ali and throwing the second fight against him. Why? Because people project "what he could've done" and give him real credit for it. That's the issue I have.

Now revisionism has painted Liston as some unstoppable head to head tour de force. I wouldn't even bet on him to beat Tunney.

 

Ah, yeah, misinterpreted your post then. Sorry. I agree with that one. :thumbsup

 

Tell me what Tunney performances make you feel that he would defeat say Ali or Holmes by large margins ? :think

 

1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Jack Johnson
4. Larry Holmes
5. Rocky Marciano
6. Mike Tyson
7. Lennox Lewis
8. Evander Holyfield
9. George Foreman
10. Joe Frazier
11. Jack Dempsey
12. Sonny Liston
13. Jim Jeffries
14. Harry Wills
15. Jersey Joe Walcott
16. Ezzard Charles
17. Sam Langford
18. Wladimir Klitschko
19. Floyd Patterson
20. Riddick Bowe

I can't find room for him in the top 20 let alone the top 10. At this rate, I'm actually inclined to place Vitaly Klitshcko ahead of him at Heavyweight. Tunney's body of work at Heavyweight is nowhere near sufficient to warrant that ranking.

 

who said he would beat Muhammad Ali... as for Holmes thats quite an easy question to answer in Jack Dempsey yet which Holmes performance makes you feel he could beat Gene Tunney.... Cooney or Norton

 

in a H2H match-up you would be lucky if 4 or 5 of those 20 could beat Gene Tunney

 

My list is based on legacy but if we are going to base it on who beats who?

Louis, Lewis, Ali, Tyson, Holmes, W. Klithscko, Foreman, Bowe, are fighters I'd favor heavily over Tunney.

 

you are entitled to your opinion and so am i yet IMO Lewis, Tyson, Holmes, Bowe & The Klitschko's would really be up against it in a H2H against Tunney as they all have their pitfalls and especially against a style like Tunney has. you may as well say Hasim Rahman, Oliver McCall, Tony Tubbs, Chris Byrd, Corrie Sanders, Lamon Brewster, Michael Spinks & Buster Douglas would all beat Gene Tunney i suppose you also take them to beat Jack Dempsey :-(

 

Tunney and Dempsey do NOT belong in any top 20 lists because they did not fight black fighters. Duckers can't claim to be among the greatest.