How would you rate Primo Carnera's title reign?

Indeed, nobody has, and one of the major boxing magazines in the early 1980s credited him as having the biggest heart of all the heavyweight champions.

Now, in addition to what I answered you before about why he's not in the IBHOF, I believe he definitely would be in today if he'd reached the final bell in his title loss. On film, it appears as though he might be conceding the match after getting up from that final knockdown, although he tearfully protested in his dressing room after the bout that, "I did not quit! I did not quit!" Getting stopped by Baer, as opposed to lasting the championship distance, hurt his standing terribly, I believe. Put him on his feet at the end of 15 rounds, and his reputation soars considerably. I have no doubt he makes it without that first round ankle injury. Primo, who went 24(19)-2(0)-0 in 1932, took six months off to heal after Baer, his longest career layoff until 1936.

 

What are you argueing here then? And why didn´t you reply to that post:

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@Duodenum: Good posts like always. IMO Neusel was the second best German hw after Schmeling and a good contender back then, ranked as high as number three by ring magazine.

More or less exactly what I tried to say the previous two pages but much better expressed. Thank you. :thumbsup

 

Carnera did not have a long title reign so how can you grade it? Carnera pretty much fought the best out there, whether they were black or white. He took risks vs speedy boxer types. He took risks vs. big puncher types. He showed tremendous courage past his best day when he fought Louis, and when he was being whacked around the Ring by Max Baer.

How about a grade of an A for fighting the best out there, and a B- for results? When Primo became champion, some of the powers in boxing wanted to create a super dread naught division for fighters his size, and get back to heavyweight boxing the way it was with much lighter men. The thing is Primo was not a stiff. He was a pretty good athlete for his size.

 

I am playing devil's advocate.put him inthe IBHOF if you want ,why not ?Everyone else who ever put on gloves is in there, it's totally meaningless imo.

When was Neusel ranked no3? Who did he beat who was not on the way down? He was European level at best,imo.

 

If Carnera's early fights in Europe were carnival-esque "fake" fights, what does it really matter ?

He then came to the USA and in 1930 - '31 took part in several matches which were seemingly "set ups" in the same way the likes of Frank Bruno were brought along in more recent times. He was matched with fourth-raters, bums and stiffs who fainted at the sight of him.
This made him a bit unpopular among the boxing press, who saw through it as excessive ballyhooing.
But he kept fighting, and improving, so that by the time he fought Sharkey the 2nd time (for the title) he was actually a decent boxer
He was considered a good boxer - nowhere near a great one, but good and hard to beat because of his sheer size and relatively good agility for such a HUGE man.

It was only after he lost to Baer and the stories of him being badly exploited came out, that there were any of the fanciful tales of ALL his wins being mobster-enforced fixes, or any serious doubts were raised about his title winning effort against Sharkey, or that he simply couldn't fight at all and had never landed a true hurtful punch.
And has been pointed out, this version of Carnera only really emanated from Paul Gallico and Budd Schulberg, two very talented FICTION writers. They took his "exploited victim" story and the "manufactured fighter" angle, and the "mobsters" angle, and ran absolutely wild with it.

It was after 1956 and the release of the motion picture "The Harder They Fall" that the most fanciful versions became the acceptable dope on Carnera.
I guess it makes him more interesting, but it's a bit sad that he's robbed of all credit for his career accomplishments.

 

When him and Schmeling fought. According to the newest Schmeling bio "Schmeling. 1905-2005. Der Jahrhundertdeutsche", Neusel was ranked 3 and Schmeling 4 when they fought the first time. Was at the same time when the nazis wanted to create a European World heavyweight championship and this fight should have been for it. Neusel had good enough results to not be seen as "European level at best".

 

I can only find Neusel being ranked no 8 in 1932,and no 7 in 1933.Being kod by Schmeling in 34 would surely have stopped his rise up the ratings?

 

Well, annual ratings I guess? Neusel beat Levinsky and Loughran in 1934 before he faced Schmeling. Could put him up there in the monthly ratings.

 

I can think of a couple of modern day giants who wouldn't have stood up to a beatdown like that, or having a broken ankle, lest they 'jeopardize' their career.

 

Can you name one other fighter of any merit he legitimately knocked out ?

 

What has this to do with anything I wrote?

 

I agree completely with allmost all of this post except on two points;
1) There was a lot of disquite, rumours and out and call of fake pre-Sharkey2. EG the Stribling fights and others.
2) See's claims extends to the first tank town tour(but I agree with you that it doesn't really matter in the greater scheme of things.)

Interestingly from memory the Godfrey fight was "sincere" as was an early win over the competent Diener and Uzcuden.

 

Stribling himself was a highly suspicious fighter with many, many fixed fights.

 

Yes, I didn't mean to suggest there were NO rumours of "funny stuff" at that time ... ... just that the later "total career was a complete fraud" version was a gross exaggeration of a wild caricature of what had happened.
The idea that Carnera NEEDED "help" to beat ALL those stiffs is absurd, but it gained some credence somehow. In Jack Cavanagh's Tunney autobiography, published within the last decade, he repeats this most extreme version as historical fact - and gives thanks to Budd Schulberg for giving him "the inside scoop".

The Stribling fights were very suspect - but that cuts both ways. Stribling's record of padding his ledger with tank town "set ups" and hokey fights matches, and perhaps even exceeds, Carnera's.
I think the Carnera-Stribling series went 1-1, both by low blow DQ ?
Talk about returning the favour !

 

Had another look at Neusel's record ,I think I was a bit harsh on him,but only a bit.