How good was Dempsey's title reign?

No I think that you had to "play ball" in New York. I dont know when or where it started but its been fairly well documented by anectdotal accounts that a ton of New York writers were on the take and/or shakedown artists when it came to printing favorable press. There are plenty of stories of Rickard having a line of newspapermen outside of his office once a month which he paid off and some accounts have those men making more money in payoffs from various managers and promoters than they did from their actual newspapers. So, whether Greb paid them or not is neither here nor there to me. He was the outsider and he was definately slandered by the New York press. They were harder on him than anyone in regards to pretty much every aspect of his life including trying to get a Dempsey bout. So if he was forced to pay them in order to get a favorable review after some of his biggest fights (that were lauded OUTSIDE of New York) then I dont blame him at all. However I dont really see that reflected in the New York press so I seriously doubt it. Secondly if Greb was forced to pay to get the same fair shake within the city that he was getting without (because the vast majority of syndicated writers resided in New York) then I dont begrudge him for that either. Thats why I think its foolish to rely so heavily on the New York papers (as some do) and particularly the New York Times (which is the most easily accessible of this period). When you take 30 or 40 ringside accounts from around the country and ten of those 40 are in stark contrast to the other 30 and those ten just so happen to come from New York City... well, it doesnt take a genius to figure out something is going on there.

 

I have that film. Its interesting.

 

The Ring is pretty awful now. Its sad. I cancelled my subscription and you cant even buy it on news stands in my town anymore. They probably sell 10 different MMA mags, 10 diff Bodybuilding mags, and 10 diff wrestling mags but no boxing...

 

I think Evans is ok, but I've found some of his Dempsey bashing ("Dempsey was a racist" etc) a bit uncalled for, to be honest. Or maybe just a little naive.
I have no idea what Dempsey was like, and I think when you go down that road of passing judgments on athletes with flimsy insights into their personalities, it becomes a different thing to sportswriting entirely.

I think the internet forums (and the revisionism) has influenced things in magazines and books, not always for the better.

They ought to start with Tex Cobb v Gerry Cooney. Now, there's a fight that should have happened.

 

But can we all agree then that he ducked Greb, ducked Wills, drew the colour line(him or his manager, it makes no difference, blacks werent allowed to challenge for his title) and was inactive for most of his **** poor title reign?

 

Yes, there's enough anecdotal evidence that the writers were paid off in those days by managers and promoters, and Rickard was the most generous of them all ... also, some writers often owned a piece of the fighters they were "boosting" in print.
Newspaper wages weren't anything special enough to keep many of these men honest, IMO.
When you add in the possible influence of gamblers, and the influence of the newspapers in the "NO DECISION" era, a very murky picture emerges.
As I always say, professional boxing is corrupt, and that's the way it is.

 

Well, he was so inactive as champion it's hard to tell whether blacks were "allowed to challenge" or not.
They ducked Wills.
Greb, they chose not to fight.

 

Apparently Tunney would always say how much respect he had for Corbett's skills after having gone through some playful sparring with him there.
I don't know if he was just saying that to be respectful (Corbett was his father's favourite fighter!) or whether Corbett really showed him a few tricks and touches that demonstrated the great skill he was legendary for. Who knows. I think this is more flattering footage of Corbett than his larking around with Pete Courteney film, even though he's a 60 year old man.

 

the thing thats interesting to me is to see the counters they practice which you often see in the old boxing handbooks from this era. Its neat to see them in actual practice by two legends.

 

I have to admit, taking three years off and out-boxing Tommy Gibbons is no easy feat, Gibbons was at one point trained by his brother who klompton says was at one point the best fighter in the world. its easily Dempsey's best defence even though Greb clearly deserved that fight and Gibbons wasd in his 30s.

 

I agree.
It was two years off though, not three.
Dempsey didn't like his performance much at all, and he was criticized for not KOing Gibbons, but it's a very good win to produce off a 2-year layoff, IMO.
What impresses me about the fight is how much stamina Dempsey exhibits by fighting up on his toes for an entire 15 rounds, and getting busier towards the end.

 

my mistake, two years.