"Joe Louis of '40 vs. Muhammad Ali of '67" in a time machine/fantasy bout. Who wins?

Bill,yes Baer was scared. You today, cannot know the fear this young Louis instilled in his opponents. Baer gave it all,despite his fear, trying to swap punches with Louis to no avail. Louis that night was as lithe and taut as a panther. Possibly no one who ever lived would have escaped THIS Joe Louis
that night...Including your favorite Clay/Ali. And Baer despite his failings had a CONCRETE CHIN second to none...Cheers B...

 

"I just give lip service to being the greatest. He was the greatest."
-- Muhammad Ali

http://www.cmgww.com/sports/louis/quotes.htm

 

The fact that Chuvalo went 15 with Ali isnt all there is to the story. The fact that Chuvalo, slower with both feet and hands then Louis, and lacking Louis' explosiveness and punching power, yet still able to get at Ali is. George, not near the talent of Louis, put Ali in the Hospital pissing Blood if you'll recall. The point is, Ali could be hit even by Men of lesser talent then Louis. Chuvalo, and Mildenberger, to a lesser extent, prove this of a prime Ali. Now the question is, what could a '37 to '40 Louis have done to Ali?

 

May i answer your question joe? Louis would have destroyed Ali. Ali,could never have survived this joe Louis...Ali today has a mystique,as invincible, which defy's reality.He had troubles with doug Jones, Ken Norton, Joe Frazier,Chuvalo [15 rounds],Slow, lumbering George Forman etc. None of these guys could hold a candle to the Joe Louis of 1935 Max Baer or Schmeling #2. His Punches were once aptly described as "a coil-spring unwinding ",so fast and leveraged were they, and when this Louis hurt you, you were gone! And he could carry this trip-hammer punching 15 rounds
if perchance he required it, and with Chappie in his corner, it was Sayonara
for his opponent !!!

 

Like I said before Burt, Ali isnt going to Jab, run, and pity pat his way to victory over 15 rds. At some point in this bout he will have to set his feet to punch and Louis is going to unload on him with a 4 or 5 or 6 punch combination.

 

Im not convinced, Sr. Billiardo.

 

Yup, flat footed, slow, shuffling old Joe Louis.


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5zkE4BkMgg[/ame]

 

Yep,Joe E,poor old shufflin Louis...What a farce description of Louis when he was at his zenith. He was fast and COORDINATED,and watch that powerful left jab, darting to Baer's face with real hurt. Joe was a master at picking off punches,ala Jack Johnson, taught to him by the old master Jack Blackburn his trainer who was a great fighter in his own right..Watching this clip again, I think that this prime Max Baer,never looked better and more focused, but his opponent that night was most likely the most deadly machine ever in a Ring...
For the life of me Joe,I cannot see any version of Ali coming CLOSE to beating this Joe Louis.No feet shuffling tricks by Ali ,without throwing punches, just glitz, would detract Joe Louis on his deadly mission. Louis by knockout. It is ordained .:hi:

 

:good

 

You were doing well, until this came. Not even coming close?

 

People rave about Louis' solid fundementals and being the perfect boxer, etc. When I watch him, I see him as basic compared to someone like Hopkins. Yes, different weight and era. But boxing is boxing to a very large degree. While Louis could hit harder as a heavyweight than any division Hopkins has fought in, I'm talking about variety within their style.

 

Burt, I love you but I have to agree with Bill on this one. Ali fought much better opponents than any heavyweight champion, including Louis. He beat 3 heavyweights that most historians rate in the top 10.

Yes, Louis stated that the best fight he had was with Max Baer, but 9 months later he was flatten by another Max. If guys like Farr, Godoy (1st fight), Walcott (1st fight) and Pastor (1st fight) can last the distance, I really think Ali would too.

Ali fought some of the hardest punchers in boxing history. Shavers, Foreman, Frazier, Liston and none of them stopped him and only 1 ever dropped him (Frazier).

Just match up Ali's opponents with Louis's that they beat. If you want, try rating them as well and you will see that Ali beat the much better fighters.

1. Foreman 40 (37 KO)-0-0 vs. Max Baer 50 (31 KO) -6-0
2. Frazier 30 (25 KO) -1-0 & 32 (27 KO) -2-0 vs. Schmeling 52 (37 KO) -7-4
3. Liston 35 (25 KO) -1-0 & 35 (25 KO)-2-0 vs. Braddock 50 (26 KO) -25-7
4. Norton 30 (23 KO) -1-0 & 37 (30 KO) -3-0 vs. Walcott 44 (27 KO) -11-2 & 44 (27 KO) -12-2
5. Patterson 43 (32 KO) -4-0 & 55 (40 KO) -7-1 vs. Conn 59 (13 KO) -10-1 & 62 (13 KO) -11-1
6. Quarry 37 (23 KO) -4-4 & 43 (25 KO) -5-4 vs. Nova 26 (17 KO) -2-4
7. Bonavena 46 (36 KO) -6-1 vs. Galento 76 (53 KO) -23-5
8. Ellis 30 (14 KO) -6-0 vs. Sharkey 38 (13 KO) -13-3
9. Folley 74 (40 KO) -7-4 vs. Farr 66 (18 KO) -20-13
10. Terrell 38 (18 KO) -4-0 vs. Carnera 82 (66 KO) -7-0
11. Chuvalo 34 (27 KO) -11-2 & 66 (57 KO)-17-2 vs. Godoy 53 (30) -8-7 & 53 (30 KO) -9-7
12. Lyle 30 (21 KO) -2-1 vs. Simon 34 (23 KO) -7-0 & 36 (25 KO) -9-1
13. Shavers 55 (53 KO) -5-1 vs. Buddy Baer 50 (47 KO) -5-0 & 50 (47 KO) -6-0
14. Bugner 43-4-1 & 51-6-1 vs.
15. Bob Foster 49 (42 KO) -5-0 vs.
16. Mac Foster 28 (28 KO) -1-0 vs.
17. Mildenberger 49-2-3
18. Moore 184-22-11
19. Young 17-4-2
20. Williams 65 (51 KO) -5-1
21. Jones 21-3-1
22. Cooper 27-8-1 & 33-11-1
23. L. Spinks 7-0-1

This is their records at the time(s) they fought Ali and Louis. You can also switch them around if you want; just try to pick the best against the best. Meaning you should have the top opponents that Ali boxed against the top opponents of Louis.

That’s 31 wins against 23 different opponents. All 23 opponents were rated #3 or better in the World at one time or another by Ring Magazine.