Mike Tyson- the last Optimus Prime Heavyweight Champion?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Pat$$$, May 29, 2011.


  1. Pat$$$

    Pat$$$ Active Member Full Member

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    Hi all,

    Here is my reasoning for calling Tyson the last Optimus Prime Heavyweight Champion: because he cleaned out the division and left no stone unturned until he was flattened. He reigned untouched until that night in Tokyo. Before that the last Optimum Prime Heavyweight Champion was Larry Holmes- title defenses against the best of the best.

    I was in an argument with a guy on youtube about how Tyson was a better champion than Holyfield. I made the comment that Bowe beat Holyfield two out of three times: the last time convincingly. Would we rank Bowe higher than Holyfield or Tyson? The answer is no. So too can you not rank Holyfield higher than Tyson or Douglas- gasp- higher than either of them because Douglas beat Tyson. C'monnnnnnn.....

    Tyson beat everyone in front of him until he ran into Douglas. Holyfield has a record of being champion, but not a record of beating everyone who crossed his path and owning the division over a significant number of years.

    Tyson did just that... cleaned up the division, held the crown for a considerable length of time- the real linear champ and not a champ that got his belt out of the distbin like Lewis did with the WBC belt before 94- but beat all comers until he got stopped. Sort of like what Holmes did, who in fact was an Optimus Prime Heavyweight champion- the next Optimus Prime Champion after Mohamed Ali.

    All of this to say that Tyson was the last Optimus Prime Champion. No one else- not even Lewis- can claim to be the Optimus Prime Champ except for Vitali Klitchsko at this point who has cleaned up the division and is reigning supreme.

    Whatsayyou?
    :good
     
  2. Muchmoore

    Muchmoore Guest

    Ya I reckon.

    Wlad should be but his brothers ****ing it up for him though.
     
  3. Pat$$$

    Pat$$$ Active Member Full Member

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    Can we say that Wlad is overrated? Seriously. It happens, ya know??
    :-(
     
  4. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    What Tyson did during '86-'90 was very rare indeed. The only significant fighters he missed were Holyfield and Witherspoon. 'Spoon just got KO'd in one round in 87 I think, so he pretty much eliminated himself from title contention. Back then, not many believed Holyfield could even challenge Mike, but for lack of better opponents, it was in the making.... Douglas was just a tune-up fight before Mike would fight Evander. Weird how things go sometimes..

    When Marciano retired in '56, there weren't too many challengers standing, either. One of the reasons I rank him so highly: he fought all the top guys of his time and KO'd them all. A true king.

    This guy called Joe Louis also had a fairly dominant period..

    Edit: how many contenders were there "left" when Joe Frazier beat Ali in '71? Not too many either, I bet.
     
  5. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Lennox pretty much fought everyone, if you don't think Lennox didn't because he missed a name or 2 then neither did Tyson because he didn't face Holyfield or Witherspoon as champ

    And no Holmes certainly didn't beat all comers
     
  6. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    How do we define "cleaned out" a division ?

    Douglas was a contender throughout Tyson's reign.
    Holyfield was touted as Tyson's second-most rival (behind Spinks) as early as 1987, and was number 1 contender in 1989, and waiting for Tyson to get past a "routine" voluntary defence against Douglas, when Tyson got beat.

    So, Tyson got beat by Douglas, a fighter he hadn't faced before, while his number 1 contender was waiting for him.

    Therefore, how did Tyson "beat everyone" ?

    I'm not saying Tyson didn't beat a load of top fighters between 1986 and '89, but this "cleaned out" expression needs some defining.
     
  7. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    When Tyson came to prominence, Spinks was lineal, Berbick had the WBC, Tucker the IBF and Smithc the WBA, Holmes had a claim to have beat Spinks to still be lineal. Tucker had beat Douglas, Thomas fought a close fight with Berbick. All those men could claim to be the best HW and Tyson beat them all. If that isn't cleaning out a division I'm not sure what is. Holyfield was moving into being a top contender in 1989 but that match wasn't quite viable until 1990, when it would have happened
     
  8. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Well, that's my point. I don't know what is. If that's what cleaning out is, then he did it. But there's always someone around the corner, who wasn't cleaned out - eg. Douglas.

    Why do you say a Holyfield fight wasn't viable until 1990 ?
     
  9. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Lewis did, but his clean up was more with the assistance of factors outside his own control and took much longer and was nowhere near as spectacular or decisive. Age took out Bowe, Tyson, Foreman and Holyfield, more so than Lewis. Jail took out Ibeauchi (and gave the assist with Tyson also), Drugs catered for McCall, who had already beaten Lewis. Dont forget that Rahman's split series was in the middle of the clean up. And Byrd and Ruiz were a little unfinished business as well.
     
  10. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Tyson cleaned out most certainly. Only spoon and holyfield were guys he should have fought in his prime. Douglas was merely a stay busy fight. If he'd have got imprisoned in 90 before the douglas fight his standing gets hugely boosted. Putting tyson in context of the old timers he has one of the best pre-title runs in heavyweight history. In terms of modern boxing he unified the major belts and ruled his division.

    He never faced a prime great during his prime but that wouldn't have mattered had he remained undefeated. The question marks arise because he lost to a fringe contender and later in his career lost to fellow greats. I feel he gets a bit underrated at present.
     
  11. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    There's no reason why he should have fought Witherspoon.
    I used to be a big supporter of 'spoon's case - simply because I didn't like Don King's grip on the division.
    But truth is, Witherspoon did nothing after losing to Smith to make himself a pressing concern.
    Buster Douglas was actually in better form and with better results.
     
  12. DDDUUDDDEE

    DDDUUDDDEE Undisputed Ambien (taker) Full Member

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    Yah but Mike Tyson cant transform into a truck or anything.
     
  13. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

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    Oh, yeah? Guess who this is? :twisted:

    This content is protected
     
  14. DDDUUDDDEE

    DDDUUDDDEE Undisputed Ambien (taker) Full Member

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    You call THAT a truck?

    Look how tiny it is! ha! :bart
     
  15. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

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    This content is protected