"Joe Louis of '40 vs. Muhammad Ali of '67" in a time machine/fantasy bout. Who wins?

But let's be real, Ali had substance in droves BB. You know i'm a Louis man first and foremost but Ali's amount of contenders and champions faced is pretty outstanding. Sure, he had holes that plenty of his opposition could not deal with, and in my opinion would have had his hands full with plenty of the boxers that louis faced.... Picking Ali is not a matter of style over substance... As much as I dislike his boxing i'd have to say that his will to win and ability is top 5 to ever grace the game..

 

S, I agree with you Ali had courage, a resolve to win no matter what,and for a HEAVYWEIGHT is a top 5 fighter. I stress "for a heavyweight",certainly in the top five. But we are talking about a match in their primes between Joe Louis and Clay/Ali, and I remain convinced alongst with many others, that the Joe Louis of the Max Baer slaughter, with Chappie Blackburn in his corner ,
whips Ali at HIS best day. Louis's handspeed and trip-hammer combinations
have never been equaled, and Ali ,never facing this before, [who has ?],
would lose to the Brown Bomber...And when Joe had MOTIVATION within him,as Max Schmeling #2 learned. Louis was a KILLER...Cheers S...

 

Well, when people bring up a Louis-Ali match I see tons of references to Mildenberger, Chuvalo, Charles, Walcott, Conn etc... But i never see anyone draw a comparison to the guy who I think is probably the most like Ali that Louis ever faced... Both hands low, fast feet, a good jab and right hand.. lots of cute upperbody movement.. Now obviously there's no comparison in quality, but in style i think there's a lot to go off of. Joe managed to cut the ring off on Sharkey and kill him but I never see anyone list this as an indicator that Joe can indeed deal with fastfooted fighters(especially ones that get to the ropes...)

 

Bill, I am so sorry to hear about this.

Just to let you know, I was married for over 10 years and we had 4 kids together and my wife walked out on all of us. I loved her with all my heart and would have done anything to get her back. I lost 42 pounds in the first 3 weeks because I was so upset. I had to take care of my 4 kids, ages 3 to 10 and work a full-time job. For years I would pray that she would come back to us. I would see her from time to time and the feelings were still their, but as time went by, the feeling did start going away.

Now its been 30 years and I got married once again approx. 8 years after my 1st wife left and I don't even think about what once was.

By the way, the person I married, also had 4 kids and we even took in 2 more kids that had some problems of their own. We also both had a large husky dogs.

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A lot of people called us the "Brady Bunch" but we said "eight is enough," or should I say 10.

I know how you feel, I was there and I never thought I was ever going to be happy again, BUT I was wrong. I couldn't be anymore happier then I am today.

You just have to tell yourself that it is she that is the loser here, not you.

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And I understand that. Virtuoso performances by Ali no doubt. And without going into a long winded explaination on these 2 Men, neither were in Louis' class by far. In fact, both were tailor made for a fighter of Alis' style of Boxing. Louis was not. Combining both speed of hand and foot, yes foot, Louis had devastating KO power in either hand which he carried into the late Rds. This combined with the ability to cut off the ring and the ability to manuver his opponent where he liked, adds up to a long night for Ali. It isn't a question of whether or not Louis will unload on Ali, it is a question of when. As Ali will not be able to stand outside, or ran backward for 15 Rds pity patting his way to victory. Not against Joe Louis. He will eventually run out of room. Or have to set his feet and fight. Ali may be able to withstand the 1st volley of a 4 or 5 punch combo of hard, hurting punches. But will he survive a 2nd or 3rd. My answer is no.

 

I hear you Burt, But I still would go with Ali. If the best of Max Schmeling could beat Louis, I really think the best of Ali would too.

 

:yep :good :happy This is the most direct explanation as to how prime Louis could've beaten Ali, IMO.

 

Billy Conn did it for 12 rounds and he wasn't Ali either. I know Louis caught up with Billy in the 13th but again, Billy was no Ali. Tommy Farr did the same thing.

Ali also had one of the best chin's ever, and most likely the best among all the Heavyweight Champions.

 

Joe Frazier was far from slow, and Ali was hurt by Joe But still managed to last the distance, and Ali wasn't his best at the time. He proved that in there return matches.

Louis never fought anyone like Ali either, so it would be a new experience for both of them. I just think that Ali would adjust to this better.

 

Yes, to Conns' infinate credit, fighting the perfect fight for 12 Rds, yes. Joe Walcott did it too. Twice. Same outcome. I would not think off speaking for another Man, but I dont think Burt would not mind in this instance. Ali never faced a Man that combined every aspect of a great fighter. Speed of hand, footwork, the ability to punch in volume, tenacity, KO power in either Fist, pugnacious disposition, etc. Never once. Louis, on the other hand, fought 2 Ali type fighters right off the top of my Head in Conn and Walcott and beat them in the 4 bouts that they had combined scoring 3 KOs in the process. Nuff said

 

Odds give Ali the edge on speed, footwork, and punch volume, but I would never count out Louis because he had a knack for catching up with guys. Ali could be caught and hurt, and believe me, Louis was a more devastating follow-up puncher and finisher when he caught you than was Frazier or Norton or Cooper. Louis wouldn't just chase Ali and wear himself out. He would methodically slide in and time and place his punches very well. If you notice, the 67 Zora Folley used that style a bit more - not just chasing Ali, remaining more stationary, sliding, and timing quick shots, and see what happened - Ali didn't move as much. Louis had an uncanny knack for timing guys just right, and with Ali's hands way down, it isn't beyond the realm of possibility that Louis catches him and follows up with devastating finishing blows. Don't be fooled by Louis's calm before the storm. He could put punches together in blazing fast fashion. But yes, we all know that Ali had a great chin, defense, ability to recover, and his style definitely would have given Louis troubles.

 

Here: "Ali never faced a Man that combined every aspect of a great fighter. Speed of hand, footwork, the ability to punch in volume, tenacity, KO power in either Fist, pugnacious disposition".....

 

Most boxing people thought Jersey Joe won their 1st bout, and was winning the 2nd fight, before getting caught. Conn was a Light Heavyweight who actually hurt Louis, and was winning at the time he was stopped. I just think that even if Louis caught Ali, Ali would some how survive like he did against Frazier, Shavers and others.

Again, I respect every ones opinion, I just feel that Ali was the best.

 

S,the analogy to Sharkey would be valid if we were talking about the Jack Sharkey of the Dempsey fight,when the Boston Gob was in his prime in 1927.That Jack Sharkey could fight.! The Sharkey who fought Joe Louis in his last fight was an old 34 year old Sharkey who was a "shell" of his former self, as Ali was with Holmes and Spinks...Cheers...

 

AND Louis never faced anyone like Ali!

"apollack" had some very good points too!

Any time Ali was hurt he came back. Even the 11th and 15th rounds against Frazier. After the knockdown, Ali got up and more then held his own for the rest of the round.

I just think that with Ali's speed of hand, footwork, ability to take a punch, defense and heart, he would come out on top.