*How close in Percentage-Terms was Tyson to PEAK/BEST when he KTFO by Bummy Douglas?*

exactly. schmeling could have went and got beat by somebody else -as douglas did- but nobody decent would fight him so his stock stayed high until louis rematched him years later.

unlike joe louis, mike tyson was out of the title picture until his return from prison - when douglas was retired.

 

He had 4 fights between the loss and prison. Any of them would have done.

The fighters who I class as greater than tyson: louis, ali, rocky, johnson, holmes, liston, dempsey, foreman, lewis, holyfield, frazier

Each of them beat every non-great they fought throughout their prime apart from perhaps johnson and his resume really speaks for itself very few people have defeated that number of ranked contenders.

My point is the losses tyson suffered to holyfield and lewis don't really damage his legacy. The loss to douglas does and we never had a chance to see if he could have beaten him on another night.

 

-and joe louis...

 

You think prime louis lost to charles? Definitely faded by that point. I have charles as a top 20 heavyweight so there are plenty of worse guys he could have lost to past his best.

 

Interesting, ive never heard anyone say that before. Normally all his losses come lumped together. i.e "If you stood upto tyson he woudl lose etc etc"

Yes the DOuglas loss does hurt his record

However, he couldnt rematch him because a) There was no rematch clause in the original contract (Becasue they though it will be a quick KO etc)
b) Douglas decided to make more money by fighting Holyfield
c) Holyfield took the title from Douglas and Douglas vanished form the scene soon after.
So a rematch was irrelevant, Tyson wanted to fight for the title. But Prison cut that short

They could have fought again during the late 90s.
Tyson was to fight Douglas if/when Douglas beats Savarese. However Savarese beat Douglas so once again a rematch was irrelevant

 

Holyfield and lewis are great fighters, great fighters beat each other without it impacting too badly on their legacy.

Fighters can lose to non greats if they are very active and defeat the greats they do face without it damaging their legacy too badly.

All tyson had in his prime was his aura of destruction because it wasn't a great era he fought in. Losing to someone of douglas's calibre is damaging if it isn't overturned especially if there aren't many greats on ones resume.

It doesn't make a huge difference but i'd probably have him in my top ten had he not lost until holyfield.

 

Douglas wasnt that bad of a fighter, very solid skills just not the mind. People overblow the loss to Douglas as being some kind of way Tyson was completely exposed, but I dont agree with that he faced several fighters comparable. He did lose one sided and thats what people hang it on but there are two sides to that arguement as he beat Tucker one sided who was very very similar to Douglas.

 

The same Lewis who got clattered by one punch? yes he avenged them. But still ATG greats dont get sparked by one punch. if Tysons bad for losing to Douglas, then wahts Lewis for getting KTFO?

Thats exactly what Tyson did, he beat Holmes and Spinks and other fighters who were on the same level or better than Douglas.

He doesnt need to overturn anything, it was a fluke loss to the same caliber of people he was beating over the past few years.

Head To Head hes at number 2-4 depending on my mood

 

Good to see you back mate :good

 

I'd say he had about 80% of his prime form. Douglas,for one night only,was a damn fine fighter.

 

He was prime. His problem was that he couldn't calculate a way to deal with what Douglas was presenting him with. He could not have withstood that type of punishment for that long and also gone on to score his own knockdown if he was out of shape.

He didn't seem to be mentally in to it but what does Mike have one knockout past the seventh? He was always far less of a threat as the fight went on, so even everything being 100% you would be talking about something unusual for him to come back and get the stoppage late in the face of adversity.

Ultimately mike is the better fighter so this isn't to disscredit him, but Douglas completely dominated an in shape Tyson that fight, he would have had to have offered more for me to say that he would ever deal with Buster with any ease.

 

It's bad but he overturned it and beat everyone he fought. And loads of greats knocked out, including tyson.

Ofcourse they were better, douglas was crap. He never recovered from that defeat.

It wasn't a fluke it was a beating.

He's 12 on my atg list. Would be in my top ten had he not lost until prison.

 

And Buster was better than McCall and Rahman. Look, it's Tyson's fault that he lost to Douglas but it's not Tyson's fault Buster ran from the rematch. I'm so sorry that Lennox got wrecked by one punch twice. I actually thought he was better than that.

 

No I dont think that. I meant louis lost within his prime to max schmeling- like Tyson..

 

best post of the whole thread!:deal