Does Greb's Heavyweight Resume Justify Picking Him To beat Johnson Over 10rds Or

Nope. Look at the way Johnson threw around Sam Langford, Stanley Ketchel, and Tommy Burns like ragdolls around the ring. Once Johnson grew into a solid 190-210lb of muscle, no middleweight in history stood a chance against him, Greb included.


1908-1910 Jack Johnson by wide UD over Greb. Greb down twice.

 

Expect Klompton's wealth of knowledge to disappear. Google news archive has just been cancelled

 

How about the thread where we examine the light heavies who trounced heavies that Greb beat?

How about the thread where we acknowledge the posters who picked Johnson but said Greb was a live underdog?

How about a Board where posters have some iota of nuance to their logic?

 

I'd favour 1919 greb to beat 1919 johnson.

Prime for prime tho, the way johnson beat fitz, langford and ketchel tells me he'd also beat greb.

 

I would favor a 1919 Greb to beat a 1896-1905 Jack Johnson.

Johnson at his best would be the favorite here, but when one considers the inconsistency of his career in his championship years from 1908-1915, Greb certainly has a chance to win.

Johnson had trouble with speedy/skilled fighters. See O'Brien or Choynski. He also had trouble with gritty fighters who did not back down in Marvin Hart. IMO, Greb is better than many fighters who drew or defeated Jack Johnson. To dismiss Greg's chances here is foolish.

I also feel this is a points decision type of fight. Stopping Greb in his prime did not happen.

 

Not sure if this is true. Either way Klompton is an expert on Greb.

 

6'1 210lb Jack Johnson of 1909-1910 would toss the little 165lb Greb around the ring like a ragdoll. No offense to greb, It's just that what a Prime Jack Johnson did with ATG middleweights.

 

Funny that in 1909, a prime Jack Johnson could not beat meek lil' Jack O'Brien, but apparently this fact gets in the way of a good fairy tale.

 

Johnson ran a circus act in the O'brien fight. He was there to laugh like a clown, do some juggling and walk the tightrope. Johnson didn't even try. That's what I love about Johnson. He was such a badass, he loved going to fight whiteboys and just laugh and smile at how much better he was than them...sometimes he took rounds off to laugh at them. He even laughed at jeffries best punches, and laughed at little smurf tommy burns...But when he turned it on, you didn't stand a chance!

 

It's great you have a version of this in your hero worshipping consciousness but let's hear it from someone who was there...

"Johnson exhibited his customary caution, and with rare exceptions refused to be drawn out by his clever opponent. Once or twice he essayed to force the fighting but invariably received the worst of the argument, and as a result returned to his careful defensive methods."

''With one exception (paraphrasing)' "O'Brien held Johnson safe, and would not allow his opponent to settle himself, but was constantly on top of him with vicious jabs and stinging blows. These made the colored giant blink and wink as they landed with alarming frequncy on his face."

Oh, but since you were there, I'll take your word.

 

I dont think Grebs HW resume is good enough to say he would beat Johnson but theres definitely more to it than that. Johnson in his prime would have been hard to beat by the smaller Greb but with no footage I'm only guessing.

 

I don't think that you could say his heavy weight resume necessarily justifies it, but we're talking about (IMO, calm down) the greatest boxer in history here, and I don't think we can rule him out so easily.

Stylistically, Greb already poses problems for JJ, if you ask me. Throw in his cast iron chin and now Johnson has to work to win a decision because I cannot see that he is getting Greb out of there within the distance. He might put him down, but I don't think he can stop him.

Also, I am no expert in Johnson, so I don't know the full extent of the circumstances of their fight but did not he fight Philly Jack O'Brian to a draw even though outweighing him by over 40lb?... The same Jack O'Brian who would go on to work extensively with Greb, who would become (at least) twice the fighter that he was?

 

It's what Johnson did with middleweights with little mobility who stood right in front of him, yes. He's not going to find the rubbery-legged, hypermobile Greb to be so easy to catch. And when Jack finally does draw a bead on him he is going to be met with a blizzard of punches, with Greb bouncing out of the way before Jack has time to launch a counterstrike.

Johnson likes to dictate and control the pace of a fight, but he will be in there with someone who cannot be dictated to and Jack will be forced to work harder than he is comfortable with. He needs time to wear Greb out, that's why I like Harry to cop a decision anywhere between 4-8 rounds. Maybe even a 10 rounder. Anything beyond that I'll take Johnson by a stoppage. The few punches that he does land in the first half of the fight will start to take their toll in the later rounds and as a result he will start to land with more regularity as the fight goes beyond 10.

Johnson wins by late rounds stoppage or decision in 15. But either way I can easily see him smiling triumphantly through split lips and a mouse under one eye, singing his scrappy antagonist's praises to the reporters as being his toughest, most difficult opponent.