*How close in Percentage-Terms was Tyson to PEAK/BEST when he KTFO by Bummy Douglas?*

Tyson's legs were shaking from fatigue as early as the 5th round. He definitely was not in shape.

 

The Tyson of 1987 beats Douglas easily.

 

Better than mccall definitely i'd say, not sure if he was better than rahman tho.

I have tyson at 12, without the loss to douglas he probably sits about number 7. We're talking a small difference here.

I think everyone agrees with you about lewis, rahman was a massive upset. Atleast he was able to right the wrong, which is something tyson never did. I don't believe in fluke victories which is why I think they should be overturned when possible. People say lewis got sparked by a lucky punch and it's bull, rahman ran lewis across the ring with his jab before timing him coming off off the ropes.

 

Yeah but he beat schmeling later. As I said he beat everyone he fought during his prime.

 

Difference is, no great was ever sparked by ONE single punch. To beat Tyson Douglas had the fight of his life, comapre that to Lennox, Mcall, Rahman were the same level as Douglas...Lennox was asleep with one punch. Its more humiliating getting sparked by one punch, than taking a beating for 11 rounds. Tyson showed, he was no walkover and Lennox showed his chin is questionable...rematch or no rematch.

He did recover from that defeat, he went on to beat Stewart and Ruddock who were good fighters, however before he could really prove that he was over the loss he was locked up. 92-95, bowe, holyfield, foreman, moorer, merecer etc would have told us something

It was a fluke beating, Douglas never did anything like that before or after. Tyson went on to beat Ruddock, Golota, Stewart, Bruno, these were decent fighters, he also won the title again after 3 years in prison. Whose the champ and whose the fluke?

He did enough at his peak to show me he belongs in the top 10. And he would also beat most ATGs IMO.

 

Some people seem to excuse a one punch knockout over a sustained beating. I dont see much of a difference as both fighters were beaten and clearly unprepared for their losses. Both Tyson and Lewis would make the same mistake twice.

 

many greats lose after being hit by a shot. went to sleep? on both times he nearly got up. i don't think either are humiliating considering both events happened to great champions who have achieved far more than i or many people could ever hope to achieve. is it better to get battered or dropped with one shot? i don't know both are far from ideal IMO.

he never hit the heights again. he picked up a couple of trinkets but he wasn't never really world champ again.

a fluke beating? so he had 11 lucky rounds? gtfo do you not have any repsect for these great warriors? douglas went through hell and back to win that night, on one sentence you say it was a fluke and the you say it was the fight of his life? gtfo and show some respect son.

we'll never know which ATG's he could beat because the fights weren't there for him.

you have him top 10, i have him top 12. we're talking a difference of 2 places here so what's the point you're trying to make?

I'll outline my views clearly for you.


1) calling douglas's victory a fluke is damn right disrespectful.
2) calling tyson's or lewis's loss humiliating is again damn right disrepsectful.
3) had tyson gone to prison undefeated his legacy would be greater.
4) he never reached the same heights after losing to douglas.
5) you need to take a long look at yourself before throwing words like "fluke" and "humiliating" around when we are discussing men who risk their lives every time they step through the ropes.

 

a loss is a loss in my book. be it one punch or be it a battering they are both far from ideal. had tyson been given or taken the chance to prove his loss to douglas was a mistake we'd be able to view him with more accuracy.

 

Douglas put on a great display im not dissing that. However, thats what his victory was, a one off, if he fought Tyson again ten 10 times, Tyson would beat him. He caught Tyson on a bad night.

I agree his legacy woudl have been greater if he had gone to prison undefeated ala ALI, but then when he lost to Holyfield you would still hear the same excuses.
He never reached the same heights after PRISON. We cant really say how badly Douglas affected him becuse he was locked up during 92-95 (The years where he could have proven himself). Prison ruined him, whether Douglas did or not, i cant tell with the 4 fights he had after.

Mcall was a fluke, Rahman was a fuke and so was Douglas, nothing wrong, offensive or disrespectful about that. Douglas was ordinary pre and post Tokyo. That to me shows he was a one off. Douglas got lucky over 11 rounds? Well Tyson is a great fighter, he wasnt going to just lie down for Buster in 2 round was he? he was going to give everything he had until there was no more.

If anyones being disrespectful, its you my friend...how many times did u say GTFO in your last post? and how many times did i swear at you?

 

The difference is what those losses showed

Tyson showed hes got a good chin and hes not a pushover and your always in for a fight against Tyson. He also showed HEART, otherwise he could have just laid down

Lennox showed his chin his questionable and he has zero recuperative skills. But he did answer critics in rematches...however those question marks would still be there.

Losses sometimes answer more question about a fighter

 

Well a lot of people say Tyson was exposed as one dimensional and showed no ability to deal with what Douglas was bringing and that was something Tyson had never seen. BS as far as Im concerned. Douglas did fight a great fight, but Tyson was just not in the proper shape to deal with it.

 

We have no idea if he'd beat him ten times or not. All we can go off is what we saw when they did fight.

Losing to holyfield and lewis is no big deal because they're fellow greats and great fighters beat each other.

Of course it's disrespectful to dismiss someones greatest night as lucky. He pummelled him for 11 rounds nothing lucky there. Mccall countered lewis beautifully, nothing lucky there. Rahman forced lewis back then timed a great shot, nothing lucky there.

Get the frig out. No swearing there my friend.

 

The truth is there should be a thread:

"The way Douglas fought that night, is there any HW champ, that he wouldn't have either defeated or been competitive with?

Answer is no.

THe bigger man used his long, quick, hard jab, often followed by a quick hard right, he moved/danced well, and clinched when he needed to. He put on a clinic on how to beat a smaller fighter no matter how hard the latter punches.

If he did not do that often means his own mental and physical problems kept HIM from being a great fighter. Indeed at his next fight's weigh-in vs Holyfield, H and manager started celebrating at the weigh-in as they knew they were getting a different Douglas than Tyson faced, and that it would likely be easy, which it was.

But the man, Douglas, deserves his due--with the thread above--for what he did that day. He ate some hard leather from Tyson too.

He would not be deterred. Whether it was the loss of his mother or the confluence of many factors, for 1 night he was an ATG,

 

And Ali did not go to prison.

 

50% or less....10 voters. Who are the Tyson huggers?