*How close in Percentage-Terms was Tyson to PEAK/BEST when he KTFO by Bummy Douglas?*

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Happy.

 

there is no proof that Tyson ever had what it took to overcome the kind of situation douglas put him in that night, because the next time tyson was in a tough fight where he was being outboxed was the holyfeild fight.

You could argue that if you cranked tyson up to the level he was in one of his beter performances (against a sitting duck) tyson would fare beter, but douglas was never a sitting duck in their fight.

I will accept douglas never was quite as good but I must ask have you seen buster in any other fight? He was good against mark wiliams, page, mccall and even Tucker until he faded.

If you are saying Tyson on another night would have beat what douglas brought to the table IN TOKYO- I want to know where is the evidence that tyson EVER overcame a sticky situation against a bigger, fired up seasoned fighter who was outboxing him?

Against Ruddock Tyson changed his corner beating a highly regarded heavyweight who stood up to him. Ruddock wasn’t beating Tyson to the draw or countering him like Douglas but mike still beat a fighter who's stock was high at the time -without looking like the guy who steam rolled over Spinks, berbick, tubbs and holmes.

Remember between the berbick, spinks and holmes fights Tyson fought bonecrusher and Tucker whom he did not steam roll over.

You have to ask yourself surely Tyson could only look that good if the other guy let him or wasn’t good enough to prevent himself from being steamrolled over.

 

I honestly can't believe the mentality of just assuming it was a fluke.

I mean lets not forget it was an amazing fight and a rematch would be a huge event. I'd argue that had tyson rematched and defeated douglas it would be one of his best victories. The guys might have just been a fringe contender and was rightfully a huge underdog but he had mike's number that night. I'd love to see a fully focused better trained mike trying to conquer his demon.

 

You keep spinning it anyway you want, but Tyson was fighting fairly close with Ruddock in the first fight. Ruddock was a different kind of fighter, but he was having success and Tyson overcame it and was robbed of a conclusive finish. The rematch was more of the same with Tyson breaking his will over the course of a tough long fight.
A focused in shape Tyson would have performed a lot better against Douglas regardless of how superior you think he was of Tyson.

 

If you honestly think Tyson looked the same in the Douglas fight compared to say the Mitch Green, which was a classic display of boxing by Tyson, than you need your head examined. Tyson looked way better, not only in that fight but almost every fight you posted. A person who doesn't know boxing at all, can see that, but your hatred prevents you from seeing that. It's very obvious your a big Tyson hater, because you consistently attack Tyson in all your posts.

 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BDb0rM6hHk&feature=related[/ame]

Tyson-Holyfield 1. Entire fight in one segment. Great quality, even full screen.

Gotta admire, Holyfield, 34 years old and everyone not giving him a prayer. Only one journalist, Ron Borges, picked Holyfield to win. Some people even sent him "get well soon" cards before the fight.

Look at Holyfield go in the first round......Taking Tyson's punches and coming right back with his own bombs.

 

80% . Tyson was fading by the time the Bruno fight happened. 1-2 years is a long time in boxing. He got away from his style completely by the time he got to Douglas, and he obviously didn't train hard for that fight.

 

Tyson’s problem was he could only maintain his winning style when things were going his way. the combinations and head movement would disappear when he became frustrated. maybe each challenger was getting closer to unravelling Tyson’s formula?

Tyson was having to try new things because challengers were having more success and looking to use things other opponents managed to do against him. To be fair he was fighting a lot of spoilers who wanted to hold - forcing Tyson to think more. As soon as Tyson was having to think he became frustrated. it did not look like he ever had the attention span to truly focus in any of the fights he had that were not complete blow outs.

That being said there is still no getting away from it Tyson was a great fighter and nobody looked beter when he was on top. When he was "on top" in a fight Tyson was a different level from anyone but even in his prime he could be unsettled and frustrated into ever getting into "on top" mode.

 

Exactly.

Lets face it, early on Mike was on the way up the ladder facing guys on the way down. You always have to see how a guy copes with that factor when they are the guy a little older and a little slower. What can and usually does fill that gap is boxing smarts. Hard sport to stay on top of if you do not have an advantage over the other guy in boxing smarts.

The other big factor in that Tyson career was the level of competition had changed. Lots of pedigreed up and comers from 88 onwards. It was going to be a whole different ballgame facing those guys fight after fight.

But I was never impressed with that lot of title challengers Mike faced early on in that 86-89 timeframe & I think lots of guys beat that group. But that terrain was changing and you could tell those up and coming challengers were going to be a lot more to overcome. I wanted to see if Tyson could pull it off. But he got taken apart by Douglas. Just how many heavyweight champs do you see get taken apart in title fights?

Mike could have re-established himself easily with a win over Evander before his prison sentence. But he pulled out of the fight--another trend of his he'd started doing a few years before, delaying fights already made. That's never a good sign.

But facing a prison sentence in 2 weeks, go ahead and fight Evander. And be at less than 100%, but get in the ring. Win. Overcome obstacles. Can you imagine the hoopla if it had been Evander who pulled out of the fight back then? And Tyson would have been the guy not given an opportunity?

 

Well considering Douglas best effort was against a guy Who was well known to be distracted and out of shape. Other than that, he showed nothing to me to show that Tokyo wasnt a one off.

Im not disputing that at all.

It might be disrespectful, thats what it is. A Fluke win which 2 of those were exposed for.

:hi:

 

sometimes being off a little is enough, Tyson left the team that guided him to success and went with the team that helped him fail...Don King was one of them...Douglas had talent but was a quitter in every tough fight leading to Tyson and proved it again vs Evander....Tyson may have been stopped sooner by another but Douglas was at best that night never to be repeated

 

yes and that was 3 years after spending time in prison, as i stated before 92-95 were the years where he could have answered those questions, unless you believe he was the same fighter when he came out of prison?

Nor was Tucker and Tyson easily beat him by landslide...same Tucker who beat Douglas (although Douglas was beating him). In fact...nor was Biggs, or Smith, or Tillis...

He was good, im not saying he wasnt, lets flip the script, did Tyson ever look that bad against anyone pre prison.... no and he fought and beat fighters better and just as good as douglas

the onyl time that ever happened was against Douglas. Unless you want to count Botha and Mathis...when Tyson turned things round?

Having Giachetti in your corner, is better than having 3 stooges who havent got a brain between them. Do u think tyson would have beat Ruddock if the 3 clowns were in his corner instead of Giachetti?

He didnt steam roll over all his competition, true....but who has? He still beat them both by UD if i remember. In fact Tyson has never lost a fight that went to the scorecards

Douglas only looked good because he was fightin a guy that was lethargic and throwing sloppy punches (and had been reportdely starving himself to make weight)

 

Well then we have different definitions of fluke. Both rahman and douglas fought the fight of their lives and at the count of ten they became the champion of the world. Lewis showed he was able to overcome rahman when he was better prepared. Tyson never showed us he was able to overcome douglas. I'm quite positive he would have done as i'm sure you are, but we'll never know for certain and to me that is enough to drop him down to 12th place.

 

I agree :good

To me he did enough at his peak to show he woudl beat the likes of Douglas and other ATGs so i rate him higher :good