Lennox undisputed Title resume - your thoughts

They didn't fight there way to being number 1 contender,both men's no1 contender status was bought and paid for in cash by DKP. Certainly Ruiz who never beat a top20 contender to get his WBA mando, probably never beat a top30 contender for that matter. DKP also paid Lennox not to fight Ruiz

Nope they were no1 ranked by WBA & IBF due to corruption. Grant was supposed to be WBA no1 contender until DKP paid for Ruiz to be so without fighting any eliminators or top20 ranked opposition

Please enlighten us what Ruiz did to become WBA mandatory and genuinely deserve a title fight??? I'll wait for the answer to this Q

 

As I say, if there was an out of ten prime rating, I think 94 gives the best average rating across the big 4. None of them bang in prime but all prime enough they would have had some brilliant and meaningful wars.

 

I strongly believe '93 is better overall...

1993:

Holy: Working with the great Manny Steward, Peak Holy in '93 was looking his best ever in his rematch with Bowe. He also dominated Alex Stewart who gave him hell in '89.

Bowe: Obliterated Dokes & gave a great effort in his second legendary war with Holy, winning 5/12 rounds on my card. Looked at least very close to Peak, close enough to be a H2H beast.

Lewis: While green, he had Impressive wins against Tucker & Peak Bruno.

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1994:

Holy: When he faced Moorer, with a collapsed left ventricle of the heart & a badly injured left shoulder. He was visibly an ill & injured fighter, who should've delayed the fight to recover. Although he still scraped the win in my eyes.

Bowe: Nothing of note (Larry Donald win). Should have been DQ'd against Mathis jr, if i recall correctly. Looked badly faded & past-prime the year after this.

Lewis: Smashed by McCall within 2 rounds. Although technically this was the same Lewis from '93, it's just that Steward taught McCall how to land the counter righthand over the low left of young Lewis.

 

hard to say really, i see your argument but i don't believe a fight in 93 between lewis and the big boys means that much. had he got through mccall i think him vs bowe/holyfield are still mega fights which over a series should leave one man standing in 96 ready to take on the baddest man in the planet.

imagine 94 lewis faces bowe and the winner goes in for holyfield, a couple of rematches later and a mega showdown with tyson is on.

 

Yes, Bruno was a Peak boxer-puncher with good boxing skills & a future WBC champion.

Tucker was Past-Prime, but still a top contender in H2H ability terms, who was avoided by Old Foreman, who prefered to throw his IBF title away rather than face Tucker, just like Spinks did earlier.

Lewis improved a lot with Stewart, particularily in terms of defense, ring IQ, balance/footwork, clinch fighting & jabbing.

Only a fool cannot see the improvements.

 

No they weren't, you'e making a fool of yourself now they were all bums coming off loses within 18months who never achieved anything and Thunder arguably beat him.

 

Seriously you're the one making a fool of yourself. You continue to point out all these fights where guys argueably lost and this guy isnt worthy because whatever. Im sure we can find the same BS in Lewis resume. No amount of will make your point. Your wrong, all fighters are somewhat corrupted into a position to fight for a title. There is no fair way of assessing them and ranking them, and your jaded view only has a fighter that can punch being worthy of a title shot. Bottom line is they WERE his mandated fights and he chose to vacate his titles, regardless if you think the challengers werent worthy enough. If Jimmy Thunder "argueably" beat Ruiz, he would have fought on for a title shot. If Andrew Golota would have beaten Ruiz he would have won the title. King didnt protect John Ruiz, thats whats , he promoted all of them!

 

Does anyone know how many mandatory contenders Lewis did fight in all his reigns as champion ?

Tucker, certainly.
McCall ? I think so.
Tua ? I'm not sure about.
Tyson was elevated to no.1 by the WBC in 2002.
Vitali was the no.1 in the WBC I believe.

 

Tua was the IBF #1 contender.

 

Your admitting Ruiz's WBA mandatory position was completely corrupt and your argument 'every mandatory position is somewhat corrupted'. Firstly that isn't true and secondly Ruiz's mandatory position is 1 of the worst in history. Either way what your saying backs the notion that a champions matchmaking shouldn't be driven by governing bodies, which is why most now do away with them and they've lost most of their prestige

You're now talking out of your ass, rankings aren't purely objective but ranking Ruiz as number 1, above others that clearly have better wins and have already beat the same gatekeepers more emphatically is obviously wrong, especially when Ruiz hadn't beat any top10 Ring Ranked contenders, which is actually an objective list

Michael Grant's resume outstrips Ruiz's by far for this period, he probably has about 5 wins that are better than and of Ruiz's at this stage

I think they should earn their title shot, Grant earned a title shot, Ruiz did not

Now your comparing Lewis's pre-title run to John Ruiz's?? Care to tell us which wins on Ruiz's pre mandation ledger compare to Rudduck and Mason?

Plenty of King on King fights were controversal including those 2. Oquendo was robbed against Byrd too. We could make a pretty long list of controversal King robberies

 

John Ruiz was the mandatory contender. Did Tony Tucker deserve his ranking? Lewis fought him. Did Butler deserve a shot at the mandatory spot? Lewis fought him. Now all of a sudden Ruiz, the guy who beat him up in sparring was the #1 contender and gives up his title.

If you think King went out of his way to protect the most unsaleable fighter in history youre nuts.

 

Bowe would have killed Lewis had they fought. It would have been better for Bowe to take the fight. He wouldnt have had a chance to slack off like he did. Lewis was exactly as Futch described, an arrogant guy who really wasnt all that good at the time. The Ruddock win made him more arrogant, and the Bruno win just made him more reckless.