Has anyone seen LaMotta vs Cerdan?

Upon watching this film of the Cerdan/Lamotta fight in 1949, a few thoughts :
La Motta was born in 1921,and was 28 years old at this time.
Marcel Cerdan ,whom I saw winning a close decision from Georgie Abrams in 1946,was born in 1916,and was no spring chicken at 33 years of age. Five year age difference.
Cerdan, for whatever reason hurt his arm,falling to the floor,of that there is no doubt, as he was basically throwing right-hands the rest of the bout. Very courageous display against
this LaMotta,who TWO years later was stopped by Ray Robinson in the 13th round,after
LOSING about 10 pounds just prior to the fight to make the 160 pound weight !
This LaMotta of the Cerdan fight,doesn't get stopped by Ray Robinson in my opinion. Jake was in great shape for the Cerdan fight in 1949...Losing more than 10 pounds weakened LaMotta very much, and Robinson and George Gainsford, knowing this, bided their time to the late rounds when LaMotta,weakened tremendously...
A shame that LaMotta postponed the rematch with Cerdan,claiming injury, and then rescheduling a new date for the rematch.As we know while flying to the States for the rematch ,Cerdan's plane crashed in the Azores in 1949 killing Cerdan.
The curse of the middleweights !!! Who would have won their rematch ? It depends on which LaMotta shows up IMO....

 

Those arent my thoughts. Those are the thoughts of people who were actually there and one guy who knew both fighters and had been in the ring with Cerdan.

Its debateable at best that Cerdan was better than Villemain or Dauthille as both of them fought better opposition at that weight and never got a crack at Cerdan which they would have accepted in a heart beat.

 

I think we can be reasonably certain that the shoulder injury diminished Cerdan's performance greatly.
And if it was the result of a push or a throw, LaMotta cannot be given credit for it.

Still, it was a great strong determined performance from LaMotta, and quite a courageous effort from Cerdan.

 

One thing is certain about the fight…LaMotta put a beating on Cerdan…a serious beating

While the LA times did not have anyone at ringside, they printed the AP report and that reports states that LaMotta’s middle finger of his left hand was badly swollen. The UP report, which appeared in the Oakland Tribune and other papers states that LaMotta’s left hand was so swollen that his handlers thought that it was broken, which the fist was to be x-rayed the next day, so the question about LaMotta’s hand is this…there is no question about it…his hand was hurt BADLY. Nat Fleischer admitted jake had a serious injury. As far as Jake breaking his hand and still throwing it with regularity…well LaMotta is the kind of fighter that had his hand been cut off, he would still have thrown punches with the nub…a broken hand, or dislocated knuckle certainly was not going to hinder a fighter like LaMotta! it's amazing how people elude to this..and make such a big deal about cerdan's shoulder.

FYI the referee did not throw cerdan down. cerdan did not fall down because he fainted. in fact he did not fall down. he was thrown down by the stronger fighter who was in a fury to win the title he'd been after for so long. cerdan could not have held back lamotta with his power because lamotta had a concrete jaw and a lot of stamina....would keep charging in ....and in general was the superior fighter.

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First round knockdown sequence

 

Lamotta deserves full credit for this victory

 

yes the film is easily available i have footage it is a decent fight

 

your really building a case fore a sprained or broken finger, which No One disputes. that finger is taped and secured in a 6 or 8oz glove...

now on the other hand a dislocated shoulder or badly hurt shoulder doesn't allow you the same luxury of continued use, to use hurts, kills even (with pain), and each movement makes it worse... No One disputes this, and it was a recoreded fact, as well as clear to see on the tape!

this is not about our favorite fighters here or national pride, it's all very visable and most people (not all obviously), agree with this and Cerdan beating Jake in the return, please don't inject personal feeling into it and try see it objectively!

MOST people aren't looking for an arguement on this fight, just simply agreeing with what transpired in print, visually and in reality - general consenses, thats all.

 

I disagree with this. Most people think Jake Lamotta is the better fighter.

 

Thats bull**** thistle1/jimmyglen... I have photos of LaMotta after the fight and his hand is swollen to twice its normal size. Dont start coming on here and accusing people of having an agenda (when in fact Cedan stopped your grandfather in 4 rounds so you have to build him up to make the case that your grandfather was as great as youve been going on about for years...) and denying that LaMotta was injured as well when we have actual photographic proof of LaMottas injuries. Do you think Cerdan is the only fighter in history to have injured himself in a bout? It just so happens that this injury comes when Cerdan fights the biggest and best fighter hes ever faced. Sorry but he lost, no excuses.

 

Throwing OR pushing a fighter to the canvas is against the rules, so I don't see how anyone can argue that LaMotta deserves credit for inflicting an injury "because of his superior strength".

But then I've only ever heard SuzieQ49 make that argument. And now SonnyListonsJab, who is in fact the same person as SuzieQ49. Why he's pretending to be two different postors I don't know.

 

You are full of ****.

 

it's real strange these type of posters - people are questioning Cerdans injury which has been spoken for 50 years now, MOST recognize it

Jakes injury is mentioned, not at first known to everybody, NOBODY denys that, nobody, BUT suddenly people are denying this - when all their saying is a _ucken serious shoulder injury cause way more pain and incapacitating than even a broken finger.

I don't make up ATG lists, I didn't write the reports, I don't argue with film footage thats obvious before your eyes - I just happen to agree with it like THOUSANDS of others. Geez sorry!

 

Yes, it's quite obvious that Cerdan's injury DID almost certainly diminish his ability to defend himself significantly.
I don't understand why anyone would feel it necessary to argue against that.

 

I dont see how looking at the film you can say LaMotta did anything against the rules.


Thistle1/Jimmy Nobody is denying Cerdan's injury. What Im saying is that this is an unforgiving sport and excuses should be left at the door. LaMotta was injured as well. You are the one coming on here accusing people of having motives, when in fact it is you who have an interest in building Cerdan up, and denying that LaMotta's injury was a detriment. There is a big difference here in why Cerdan's shoulder injury is such a "big" story and LaMotta's isnt: LaMotta won in spite of his injury and barely even mentioned it. Cerdan lost and for the several months he was alive afterwards all you heard was how he would have won if he had not been injured. Like I said, no excuses. Regardless, LaMotta jumped on the first opportunity to have an immediate rematch with Cerdan and when Cerdan died LaMotta cried. Doesnt exactly sound like a guy who was worried about losing. Now go back and explain to me why Cerdan, supposedly the greatest french middleweight, never fought 2 or 3 or the best french contemporary middleweights, all of whom could have given him loads of trouble...

 

I have read somewhere that Cerdan was probably as good as Ray Robinson.