Andre Wards weaknesses

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Ukansodoff, Jun 5, 2011.

  1. BigmanJapan

    BigmanJapan Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    0
    :lol:

    Jack, stop with all the psycho-analysis "he scared, she scared, disrespectful not starring etc, etc" of a god darn interview (I remember reading similar psycho-babble from folks on that side of the pond leading up to the Mayweather Hatton fight!) If it makes you sleep well at night- Ward's scared.:roll:
     
  2. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    28,760
    Likes Received:
    84
    Bika makes everyone look bad, even Calzaghe. NEXTTTT
     
  3. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    28,760
    Likes Received:
    84
    Sounds like the logic of a Klitschko fan, except such logic gets laughed at by Haye fans like yourself.

    Ward is on another level. You guys will realize sooner or later. All this oversimplified "He doesn't have power to get Froch's respect" is meaningless oversimplified analysis. You'd think Nicolino Locche would've gotten bullied and run over because no one respected his power. Skills pay the bills. Ward can beat Froch on the outside, inside, mid-range. Any range all day everyday. Froch's best chance is catching Ward coming in with something he doesn't see. If that's the case maybe he that punch can land can get him the win. Most likely, Ward would get up and regroup anyway.
     
  4. Rexrapper 1

    Rexrapper 1 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2010
    Messages:
    9,595
    Likes Received:
    723
    I guarantee everyone this will be an easy fight for Ward. Ward dictates the fight when he is in the ring. I don't believe Froch will do anything about it. Froch would get out boxed to a UD for Ward.
     
  5. Jack

    Jack Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2006
    Messages:
    22,560
    Likes Received:
    67
    Well, not "next" because Bika is a second tier Froch and whilst I agree that he makes everyone look bad, so does Froch. The difference is, Froch wins those fights that Bika loses. When analyzing Ward/Froch, Bika is the best example of a comparison to Froch that Ward as faced and he didn't pass that test well.
     
  6. Jack

    Jack Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2006
    Messages:
    22,560
    Likes Received:
    67
    The difference between Locche and Ward is that Locche was nearly impossible to hit flush. He could stand in the centre of the ring and make his opponent miss, so the argument of 'power/chin vs. power/chin' is irrelevant because Locche wasn't that type of fighter. Ward, however, is. He will trade with fighters and he usually gets the better of it because he has a more dynamic attack that his opposition. He took some punches against Kessler, Bika and even Abraham despite 'King' throwing a handful more punches than the referee. I don't know how accurate the punch stat numbers were but they said Abraham landed a huge percentage against Ward and even if they were wrong, it was certainly the case that Abraham had no trouble finding Ward.

    Skills do pay the bills, yes, but there's a fighter inside Ward who will not back down from a fight. That, if anything, will be his undoing against Froch. He is an aggressive boxer who is not going to run if the going gets tough and he isn't going to do a Locche and make his opponent miss all night. He's going to attack Froch and when he does, he'll be open to Froch's punches himself.
     
  7. Royal-T-Bag

    Royal-T-Bag Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
    Messages:
    22,661
    Likes Received:
    4
    Froch can win if he keeps Ward at the end of his jab and doesn;t allow him to get inside, Froch wins an outside fight but if Ward gets inside and in fights he'll outhustle and frustrate Froch for the decision. There are question marks above Wards abaility to take a solid shot from Froch and questions about Froch being able to handle Wards infighting ability.

    Froch might be too much mano for Ward we don't know til they get in the ring but if you ain't mentally tough as **** Froch will exploit that.
     
  8. kopejh

    kopejh Guest

    we gotta discuss Froch's weaknesses too. this slowpoke has so many holes in his game, particularly his defense, I can't see how he could possibly beat Ward.
     
  9. Two Shakes

    Two Shakes Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2008
    Messages:
    8,927
    Likes Received:
    176
    Its called "bilnd hatred" there are many sufferers on ESB,your not alone. :good
     
  10. Aint no stoppin

    Aint no stoppin Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2008
    Messages:
    6,191
    Likes Received:
    937
    :lol::lol::lol::lol:
     
  11. Brit Sillynanny

    Brit Sillynanny Cold Hard Truth Full Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2009
    Messages:
    2,653
    Likes Received:
    4
    Carl has almost no chance to win. He will have to catch Ward with a big big punch (and in series/combination) and we've already seen Kessler, Bika, Miranda, & Abraham (who are certainly comparable in either one punch power or power in combination (e.g., Kessler)) hope to land a fight-changing punch or series of punches and fail completely.

    Carl will turn 34 years old at the time of this fight. His comparative deficiencies only exaggerate not diminish. No matter how hard he works in camp he is still showing the lateral movement of a sort of hunchbacked very old horse as he can't really bend at the waist. It was barely enough against Kessler & Old Man Johnson to make for close fights. It is clear that the footwork, reactive ability, and speed/quickness of Kessler, Froch, and a 42-year old Glen Johnson are more or less comparable (similarly, a 46-year old Bernard Hopkins has fallen to that level, and almost every other fighter at 168 is in the same broad category). In fact, only two really stand out as having significantly higher end speed - Ward and Dirrell. It is both innate and complemented by their youth. It is exhibited in elusiveness and agility.

    While there can be some small differences in the timing of reaching physical maturity for athletes there is little doubt that Ward is still on a rising arc (for a couple more years). Andre was just 25 years old when he faced the hard punching but incredibly limited 28 year old Edison Miranda, 25 1/2 when he faced the 30 1/2 year old once beaten Mikkel Kessler, 26 1/2 when he faced the 31 1/2 year old Sakio Bika, and just 27 years of age when he met the 31 year old Arthur Abraham. All of these fighters were mature men without any diminishment in or diminution of their physical power. The only concern Ward had to address was his own comparatively lesser physical maturity level in matching up with these fighter's equivalent or better (sheer) power - at that or this point in time. [It has been an even greater challenge for the modestly less mature Andre Dirrell who receives a lot of stick and little recognition of the obvious fact that he wasn't as physically mature as the men he was facing. There can and likely will be dynamic change yet to be seen.]

    The next fight will bring a 27 1/2 year old Andre Ward against a 34 year old Carl Froch. While Ward is not going to be as strong and mature as he will become at 28, 29, 30, & 31 (for example), he has already been aptly tested by the kind of strength and/or level of power Carl will bring into the contest when he previously faced Bika, Kessler, Abraham, and Miranda.

    Most relevantly, he has already met a fighter with very similar attributes of length, size, power, mobility, and ability in Mikkel Kessler - and shut him down fully.

    The primary detriment in Ward's arsenal is not one of technique, knowledge, skill, talent, experience, or anything like that. It is a purely physical one - it is his unexceptional reach. His reach relative to height means he has the same challenge guys like Abraham, Bika, Bute, Allen Green, etc. have to overcome (whereas guys like Dawson, BHOP, Glen Johnson, Froch, Kessler, Dirrell, Jermaine Taylor, Tarver, and Miranda have this as a comparative advantage and/or asset). In many cases, shorter armed fighters are often thicker limbed and strong and can bull their way into a close range firefight. As anyone can note, guys like Abraham and Bika need to be in close to land and must find a way to get inside or they can be nullified. But, when faced with a skilled opponent with size, length, or better footwork closing the distance is problematic. Froch kept Abraham at bay by keeping his long hard jab regularly firing and punishing the hobbit-like Arthur every time he attempted to close the distance - which if Abe couldn't accomplish there would be no way to land his own powerful but short punches and win the fight.

    Distinctly, Ward (due to a certain extent to being younger and less comparatively mature physically while facing veterans and the division's best) can't and does not rely upon being strong enough (to take a couple punches on the way in to land one of his own) or bulling his way through jabs to get inside and close the distance to overcome his limited reach. Ward's attribute set and athleticism allows him to use superior quickness, footwork, and timing to close behind his own leads. Having to compensate for his lack of reach is why he has a strong inside game. A relatively short armed fighter can't expect to remain at range and be successful. [It can be noted that like in many sports, reacting quickly and moving into a space whether forward or to a side can result in two athletes making the same or identical choice to advance or maneuver and ending up in the same place at the same time. That isn't dirty .. that is circumstance and/or the struggle to control space, the field, or to position to throw.]

    The primary advantage available to Froch is that he will have opportunities to throw at a target that will have to come into his range throughout the fight to score. Against Abraham, Ward had to be elusive enough to move his head in a split second to avoid Arthur's very wide but very heavy punches. Against Froch, Ward won't be at risk of the same kind of one punch power but the much longer reach of Froch will mean that he will have to move himself a greater distance to avoid punches. Both circumstances require Ward to be consistently sharp. But, there is little reason to expect Froch will have discernibly greater ring success in terms of actually winning rounds. He can be more effective than Abraham and still win the same number of overall rounds in the fight.

    This a quick fighter still rising toward his peak facing a rather slow one. The different attributes of Dirrell versus Ward mean this fight can't and won't be the same as that fight (i.e., AD is taller than Froch, with the same reach, and arguably even better speed/quickness than Ward). Still, Froch landed almost nothing against the really immature but lightning quick Dirrell. In fact, Froch ate - BY FAR - the more meaningful punches in that fight. Similarly though, Ward will be the closest thing to AD that Froch has ever encountered. Problematically, speed and quickness will be matched with a far superior inside game, more guile, stronger constitution, and an expectation and willing anticipation of a physical fight. Glen pretty much disregarded Froch's power and simply plodded forward unconcerned by his punches and not bothering to avoid them (and at 42 years of age he couldn't expend the energy to be tactical and merely wanted to close the gap believing that his punches were heavier or heavy enough to add up and bring Froch down). (While it didn't happen) Glen backed Carl up for the entirety of the fight and it showed that only Froch's comparative youth and energy made the difference as he threw more punches than the 42 year old (as anyone would have expected). This performance as well as his close fight with Kessler, his struggle with the athleticism but fairly low ring IQs of Taylor & Pascal (compared with Ward), and inability to have any kind of boxing answer for Dirrell's quickness show that while he will be game he simply doesn't have the skill set to win especially as conditioning and youth will swing heavily against him when facing Ward.

    Ward in 2011 = 8-4 or 9-3.

    Prime for prime = 11 - 1.
     
  12. Reppin501

    Reppin501 The People's Champ Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2010
    Messages:
    21,943
    Likes Received:
    3,300
    Ward's weakness will be his Chin, if he is caught with a few BIG shots, I could see him being hurt and possibly stopped. I don't think it will happen, but if I were going to pick out a weakness this would be it. I would also think against a heavy hitter (not sure Froch is that guy, considering he hasn't stopped or seriously hurt anyone of elite level other than Taylor) Ward doesn't have the power to get someone out, which over a long fight could cost him. He won't be outboxed and lose a decision to Froch and possibly anyone on Planet Earth.
     
  13. Two Shakes

    Two Shakes Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2008
    Messages:
    8,927
    Likes Received:
    176
    Your a well known Hater,your post is well written,but contains nothing except your personal (heavily biased) opinions.
     
  14. Reppin501

    Reppin501 The People's Champ Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2010
    Messages:
    21,943
    Likes Received:
    3,300
    What about Bika and Froch do you consider similar? How exactly are you arriving at the conclusion Bika posses similar challenges to the ones Ward will see with Froch?
     
  15. Reppin501

    Reppin501 The People's Champ Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2010
    Messages:
    21,943
    Likes Received:
    3,300
    With all due respect, there are clear signs that you are clearly biased, and allowing pride and emotion to cloud your judgment.