He had the skills for sure but proved them not enough to be ranked amongst the true elite Top15-20 IMO.
Unforgiven, I agree with your stance on this thread on all counts, and particularly liked your case by case assessment of Bowe and Lewis's opposition. Lewis's career has several strengths (based on longevity, mental fortitude etc), but the quality of his opposition at the time he fought them is not one of them.:good
Which was an incorrect assumption proven time and again by the terrific performances Evander went on to display ...
Skills in a vacuum mean nothing. He has to produce within the context of live opponents. His claim to fame is that he won 2 out of 3 to an undersized, placeholder-type champ who no one thought much of at the time in any ATG context. In those three bouts he regularly disregarded his size advantage, fought at close range (commence with the oohing and ahhing of his inside offensive game while ignoring the pounding he took in that position) and showed he didn't study Mr. Futch too hard when it came to defense. Other than that he seemed to seek out old, washed up opponents, green opponents, and mostly guys who could not punch.
This is such a chicken **** statement. That undersized placeholder is in the top 5-8 of all time, and Bowe beat him twice, argueably three times. Holyfield wasnt beaten by every guy who was bigger than him. He didnt seek out washed up opponents. Donald was a #1 contender and experienced amatuer, and he wiped the floor with him. Hide was a titleist. Tubbs, Biggs, Seldon, Bert Cooper, all the usual suspects of an up and coming fighter. Hell his pro debut was against Lionel Butler, who was no pushover. People need to realize the titles and fighters for that matter were very splintered around this time. Noone wanted to work with King and the WBC because of their corruption and Kings insistence on long term contracts, so there was almost like three heavyweight divisions around this time. You had King lining up all his contenders to face Lewis and each other for WBC rankings. Bowe and Holyfield were fighting each other and all the young Main Events fighters were fighting each other.
Seamus, it is really baffling to me the lengths you will go to to defend Lewis, but you are tearing Bowe apart. Answer me this: How do you feel about the fact that an arthritic version of the 'undersized Holyfield' you are tearing into is the very best win of Lewis's entire career, and he gave Lewis everything he could handle in their second fight??
People certainly did not believe that at the time or even after the time. In fact, it didn't really occur to anyone until post-Tyson II, which is a sentiment that probably needs revisiting. Not just washed up opponents but renowned light hitters in an era of heavy hitters... Donald, Tubbs, Coetzer, Biggs... Cooper had power but had lost 3 of 5 coming into the fight. He (and/or his management) also blatantly ducked one of the fights (Lewis) everyone wanted to see, and missed the other fight (Tyson) due to timing and his lack of longevity. I am not saying Bowe was crap or I didn't like him as a prospect. Quite the opposite. He just fizzled out with fulfilling what was thought to be a lot of promise.
Thats just not true. Holyfield was the reigning undisputed champion with three defenses. Bowe beat the **** out of him in an epic fight. Holyfield was very much considered the man at the top and many boxing insiders knew of Holy's sparring sessions with Bowe where he handled him quite well. Cooper was never a consistent winner, bad example. Donald was a #1 contender. Coetzer was for the WBA mandatory shot. Nothing wrong with fighting guys like Tubbs, Seldon, Biggs and Cooper coming up. Nice variety of styles and looks. Well theres more to it than that, but that seems to be the general view on this board. I dont entirely agree with it, and Lewis had something to do with the fight "never" happening. I think Bowe could have accomplished a lot more, but I think the same can be said for a lot of fighters who somewhat fizzled out after they became multi millionaires.
evander was the champ. I liked him but the mainstream view back then was holyfeild still had not paid his dues as a HW and was yet to face a serious contender. donald and coetzer had ratings without beating rated fighters. the others were as you say, a nice variaty of styles but not at all ambitious or threatening at that time.
Between 18 and 20. He had a good career while it lasted but he just didn't have the longevity. His career was much shorter than it should have been because he lacked dedication to training.
Unfortunately, my estimation of Bowe has nothing to do with my estimation of Lewis... because Bowe ducked him and deprived us of the matchup necessary to make such relevance. Holyfield was up and down, had great performances later in his heavyweight career and weaker ones earlier. Despite any revisionism, he was not considered a great champ going into the Bowe fight. He might not have been considered a top 3 heavy at the time.
He beat Douglas who beat Tyson, then he beat Holmes and Foreman who had a nice streak going. Holy more than proved himself as a serious heavy. To say otherwise, you werent alive at the time. :blood I never understood the thought Bowe ducked his way to a title shot. Doesnt really make sense. His run to the title was good.