Why did Jeffries defend against John Finnegan in1900 ?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Jun 8, 2011.


  1. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    John Finnegan",The Pittsburgh Stogie",challenged champion Jim Jeffries in 1900 .
    Finnegan had engaged in 11 fights ,winning 4 of them 2 by dsq.



    Here is his record.

    1900-07-09John KramerMillvale, Pennsylvania, United StatesWKO1920
    Results from the Pittsburgh Press.
    1900-05-14John J. Cavanaugh
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    Cyclorama Hall, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, United StatesDPTS66
    referee: Billy Corcoran
    Results from the Pittsburgh Press. Finnegan fought as "John Finnegan".
    1900-04-06180James J Jeffries240
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    Cadillac A.C., Detroit, Michigan, United StatesLKO110
    time: 0:55 | referee: George Siler
    World Heavyweight Title
    "Finnegan landed the first blow as they came to the center of the ring, and Jeffries then put his left on the Pittsburgh man's jaw and he went to the floor. Finnegan came up in a few seconds only to be sent to the floor again with a blow in the same place. He stayed down longer this time and when he again rose he was in visible distress. He had hardly assumed a fighting position before the champion put his left in the pit of his stomach and Finnegan went down completely out. Referee Siler counted the seconds off and when he stepped back it was seen that Finnegan was crying. He staggered to his feet, reeled against the ropes and his seconds rushed into the ring and carried him to his corner. It was several minutes before he recovered sufficiently to leave the ring. Jeffries said he weighed 220, but he looked 30 pounds heavier. Finnegan weighed but 180, and he looked like a boy beside the champion." (Brooklyn Daily Eagle)
    1900-01-31192Gus Ruhlin195
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    Genesee A.C., Utica, New York, United StatesLKO420
    Finnegan of Pittsburgh was on his back ten seconds after the first bell. He beat the count and survived the round, but took a beating in the second round, only saved by the bell. In the third round, two hard lefts knocked him through the ropes. He crawled back in to beat the count again, but his seconds had to carry him to his corner. Seconds into the 4th round Ruhlin dropped him again, and inside the next minute and a half he dumped "The Pittsburg Stogie" on the canvas four more times. As the police moved to stop the fight, Richard McCormick, Finnegan's manager, ran into the ring and carried his man to his corner.
    1899-12-22Jack McCormick
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    Genesee A.C., Utica, New York, United StatesWTKO1820
    referee: Tim Hurst
    From the Boston Globe.
    1899-11-18Australian Jimmy Ryan
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    Saint Louis, Missouri, United StatesDPTS2020
    Editor's note: It was around the time of this fight that John Finnegan gained a modicum of national notice and certain newspapers began occasionally referring to him by the nickname "Jack". Historians over the decades have embraced it, but from the beginning of his career to the finish he more often went by his given name of "John", so it seems appropriate to reassert it here for the official record.
    1899-11-13170Jack Bonner170
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    Metropolitan A.C., Wheeling, West Virginia, United StatesDPTS



    1899-02-27Mike Creedon
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    Greater Pittsburgh Club, Homestead, Pennsylvania, United StatesWTKO520
    referee: Billy Corcoran
    Results from the Pittsburgh Press and Pittsburgh Post-Gazette(John Gruber series). John Finnegan had Creedon going from the first round on.
    1899-01-16John J. Cavanaugh
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    Lenox Athletic Club, Mount Oliver, Pennsylvania, United StatesLPTS2020
    referee: Joe Leonard
    Results from the Pittsburgh press. Finnegan fighting as "John Finnegan". Red Mason managed Cavanaugh. Finnegan floored in the 17th.
    1898-10-25Tom Lansing
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    Wheeling, West Virginia, United StatesWDQ1420
    referee: Leslie Pearce
    1898-05-19Jim Scanlan
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    Mansfield Club, Carnegie, Pennsylvania, United StatesDPTS2020
    referee: Buck Cornelius

    1896-02-17158Herman Beck158
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    Maennerchor Hall, McKees Rocks, Pennsylvania, United StatesDPTS1010
    referee: Al Cratty
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    1896-01-27Mike Lewis
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    McKees Rocks, Pennsylvania, United StatesNCNC44

    1896-01-17David Corbitt


    Finnegan had a total of 5 wins.Here they are.
    In his pro debut ,against fellow debutee Dave Corbitt,Finnegan won by dsq rd 3.

    Corbitt never fought again.

    Next win was over Tom Lansing 4-2-0w dsq 14rd.Lansing was a middleweight.

    Mike Creedon 5-3-0 was next up wtko 5rds Creedon was a middle weight.

    Jack McCormick 8-14-2 wtko18rd

    These were his wins going into his title shot.
    After being slaughtered by Jeffries, Finnegan had 2 further fights,a draw with John Cavanaugh,and a win over debutee John Kramer ko 19 rd.

    Going into the Jeffries title fight Finnegan had met ONE class fighter.
    Gus Ruhlin who massacred him in 4 rds, flooring him 7 times before koing him,and at one stage knocking him clear out of the ring.
    This was only 3 months before Finnegan challenged Jeffries.
    My question is ,what was Finnegan doing in the ring on the 6th of April 1900, challenging the world heavyweight Champion?
    .
    Jeffries landed a left to the jaw,Finnegan went down ,on arising Jeffries landed another to the jaw, Finnegan went down,he struggled up once more Jeffries landed his third punch of the fight, a left to the stomach ,Finnegan went down for good, he was carried crying to his corner.he had landed one punch.

    Thoughts on this ?
     
  2. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    It was warm up fight that lasted 55 seconds. Jeffries wasn't floored, out boxed, or Ko'd by men under 180 pounds.

    NEXT.
     
  3. MRBILL

    MRBILL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    1900? Goddamn.... Jeff had to fight someone for activity... You know, in 1900, champs fought a lot of "Who's Tuff In This Area" type of opponents.... The world turned differently back then....

    MR.BILL:deal:think
     
  4. JAB5239

    JAB5239 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Wasn't Fitzsimmons giving him a good beating till breaking his hand or something?
     
  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    It was a title defence against a man with 4 wins on his record,all over absolute nobodies , 2 of whom were middleweights ,and 2 of those wins were via dsq.
    Finnegan had fought ONE name opponent Ruhlin, and been absolutely massacred in 4 rounds ,he was down 7 times.

    Fiinegan had 4 wins, 4 draws 2 losses , and a no contest prior to his title challenge

    3 of the draws were with middleweights. BTW

    Title Fight ? It was a disgrace!

    The most undeserving challenger any Heavyweight Champion ever defended against,and I include Pete Rademacher ,who would have killed Finnegan.

    NEXT
     
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Jeffries had fought Sharkey just 5 months previously, he was hardly rusty.
     
  7. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Was this really a title fight though? I dont think i have seen any where bill the fight as a title fight. I think it is more of an exhibition. Incidentally, and i posted it on a different thread, but Jeffries fought Lawlor the night before this fight, in a a city which was at least a 6 to 7 hour (probably more) train ride away. I dont see how he would agree to fight a world title fight under these circumstances. But, if he did, then it certainly makes the title fight and result a whole lot more impressive.
     
  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    What can be impressive about knocking out a hopeless nobody?
    Do you think anyone in our current heavyweight top ten could not have duplicated this feat?
     
  9. MRBILL

    MRBILL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Again, point is, in 1900, finding 10 guys truly worthy of being called world class contenders was difficult and political...

    I love old age boxing and film history to the max, but that's not to say politricks and games were not factored into sports even a century ago---it was....

    I do think Jimmy Jeff was great for his era.... I think he sits high near the top from 1887 to 1960, as well.... Certainly top-10 during that 73 year span.... If we add in 1960 to 2011, well, Jimmy Jeff dips down to #'s 15 thru 20 in my book....

    Here in 2011, I rank him as an ATG top-20 heavy.... Some folks will buy and accept that, while others will think I'm insane...

    MR.BILL:bbb:deal
     
  10. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I think your approach to it is imminently reasonable.
     
  11. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    How certain can we be of this man's record?

    Overall jeffries has one of the best records for taking on the top challenger in history.
     
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    If you find anymore fights we can include them . Judging his form ,they are likely to be losing ones though .:hey
    Jeffries fought Fitzsimmons twice, Fitz was 37 and 39 years old.
    Jeffries fought Corbett twice, Corbett was 33 and 37 years old.
    Jeffries fought Ruhlin twice, and acheived a good result, second time around.
    Jeffries fought Sharkey twice , both fights were nip and tuck.
    Jeffries fought moderate [thats being kind Jack Munroe].
    Jeffries fought abysmal Jack Finnegan, [thats being objective].
    8 title defences in 6 years , 3 over men he had allready beaten , 2 of whom were coming out of extended retirement.
    1, against a man he had drawn with 2 years before he had won the title.
    I think the defences against Munroe and Finnegan are unjustifiable.
     
  13. guilalah

    guilalah Well-Known Member Full Member

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    As Jeffries had already signed to defend against Corbett, I look on the Finnegan fight as something to give Jeffries some work, keep him sharp, and bring in a little change.

    If they billed it as being a title fight, shame on them. However, it's not clear it was billed as a title fight. Anyone shows me something billing it as a title fight, I'll thank you and happily join you in hooting Jeff' 'n' Co.
     
  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    If anyone needed "some work" , or " a warm up fight", I should have thought it was Corbett as he had been retired for 2 years when he fought Jeffries.
    Both Box rec, and Cyberzone class it as a title fight as opposed to the Griffin and Kennedy 4 rounders,[the Finnegan fight was scheduled for 10 rds] which they do not.
    I can't show you billing of it, but then I haven't got billing of the Fitzsimmons,Sharkey or Corbett defences ,I just know they were classified as title defences.
    The Finnegan fight is in the Guinness Book of records as being the shortest heavyweight title fight.One would assume some checking was done before claiming this.
     
  15. Surf-Bat

    Surf-Bat Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Pretty positive. I put this record together for Boxrec myself after scouring through almost every single Pittsburgh Press newspaper from 1896-1910. Finnegan had several amateur fights before "coming out of the closet" as a pro (as did several other Pittsburgh fighters) in 1896 at a time when it was dangerous to do so. I found his record in an extensive article written in the 1910s by John Gruber, who covered Pittsburgh boxing extensively throughout the 1890s-1910s and whose records and reminiscences of those times proved uncannily accurate when I went in to verify what he'd written. There is at most 2 or 3 fights missing from Finnegan's record.

    Finnegan was an exciting clubfighter-level boxer who was popular for his brawling style. He died two years after fighting Jeffries from alcohol-related problems(he was only in his 30s). He became a bartender in Pittsburgh after his career was over and apparently was his own best customer.