How can Floyd get into the top tier all time greats

I think Floyd v Pacquiao IF IT HAPPENS will go down as one of those fights that happened too late, both guys past their primes.

Realistically, IF IT HAPPENS, Mayweather will be at least 35 with a history of inactivity breaks, and Pacquiao will be at least 33 .....

 

He neds to beat a Martinez or fight more regularly, his talent could alone almost see him rated top 20. But he needs a Martinez, even a w over Pac wont cut it.

I got him just out of top 40 currently.

 

He neds to beat a Martinez or fight at least more regularly, his talent could alone almost see him rated top 20. But he needs a Martinez, even a w over Pac wont cut it.

I got him just out of top 40 currently.

 

By meeting and beating Manny Pacquiao.

 

The fact your bringing up those names shows you've only been following the situation for 2-3years, the same as most on here, I'll give you a deeper history of what actually happened

During that time (03-06) he was calling out Spinks, Tyszu, Hatton, COtto, Delahoya and Mosley and none would fight him. When he moved to 140 he said 'anyone 147lbs and down' and he was chasing DLH for years and years, even before that.

Some of these are on record of turning the fights down. Freitas turned a Mayweather fight down too when both were at 130lbs. Casamayor was never really in the picture when both were at 130 but the fight was laughed at on here when it was proposed for the November 2005 date. The fights he took at 130lbs were the biggest names out there and he tried to make a Hamed fight at 128lbs - Casa and Freitas weren't really established yet

Gatti and Tyszu were the big money fights at 140lbs. Tyszu took the biggest money offer to face Hatton. Tyszu and Mayweather couldn't fight then because they were contracted to different networks (Showtime/HBO) but they were talking about a unification after the Gatti/Hatton fights when Tyszu's contract would be up but Tyszu lost. November 2005 - Hatton, Cotto, Judah all turned the date down (Arum for Cotto as he wanted to build the fight up more) - Judah thought he was worth more and thought he'd fight an easy money mandatory (Baldmoir) before Mayweather. So twice his 'big name opponent slipped up messing up a super fight. After Judah lost Mayweather looked for a bigger name for his PPV in Hatton and guess what - even Margarito.

Still Ndou was seen as a decent contender at the time ranked in the top10, Sosa arguably deserved the decision over Spadafora for his IBF title. Gatti/Corley/Mitchell/Hatton/Judah were all top6-8 at 140lbs when he moved into the 140lb division and he fought all of them. He wanted Hatton as his first fight at 140 in Manchester in 2004 instead of Corley, Corley was an ex champ and had a good argument for beating Judah. Gatti isn't quite the easy fight then its seen as now, he was the WBC champ and had just destroyed undefeated WBA LW champ Dorin who had himself being robbed against IBF LW champ Spadafora

Arum didn't want Mayweather and Cotto to fight from 04-05 when he had both contracted and Cotto was nearly getting ko'd by Corley and Torres. Cotto was nothing more than a paper champ and not rated highly until the Judah fight and wasn't seen as a big fight until the Mosley fight, which was controversal itself. That which was a month before Mayweather's Hatton fight. Hatton was lineal at 140lbs and that was the fight Mayweather supposedly ducked, it was a much bigger fight than Cotto who was ofcourse with Arum anyway

When did Clottey actually beat someone and not choke to put himself in the picture? Margarito turned down an April 2006 to face Mayweather because he had a fight in February. Mosley turned down the Baldomir date because he was on vacation and had to get his teeth fixed. The reason the Margarito fight didn't happen was because of Bob Arum, who wanted Mayweather to turn down 25million to face DLH to take a 3fight contract totaling 21million to face Margarito (8m including signing on fe), Cotto (7m) and Hatton (6m) and he's on record releasing this contract, which was supposedly a great contract at the time

So Mayweather bought his Arum contract out and tried to fight DLH who wanted the fight in May 07. Mayweather tries to fight Mosley and Hatton, but only Baldomir and Spinks are available, he fights Baldo for the WBC strap. He actually retired then, but signs to fight DLH agreeing to all of DLHs conditions - weight, gloves, ring, taking only 30% of the purse.

In 2008 there was supposed to be a DLH rematch at 147lbs, DLH wouldn't do 50-50, Mayweather after 9years of championship boxing retired, Margo/Cotto/Clottey had nothing to do with it, some actually said he was ducking a DLH rematch. He only came back because he ran out of money

And the end of the day the point is he's beaten better fighters than all those men and he beat men who beat them you can't face everyone, especially if they won't sign the contracts

 

Pp. You obviously have some sort of generic answer you use to person to any of these queries because it addresses few of my issues. And as for following the issue within the last few years, there was no reason to be interested in floyd until the bald fight because of his less than impressive run.

To claim that freitas and casa were not really in the picture is laughable when he instead fought ndou and sosa who had never even seen the picture. Plus the fact that casa and freitas were both ranked in the two places behind floyd renders your situation moot.

I never claimed he ducked hatton nor cotto and lww so that was a waste of effort on your part. I claimed that tzyu would have been a better fight than brussels or corley and that simply cannot be disputed. I also claimed the gatti fight was huge yet you still defended it for some reason.

As for your picking holes in the ww's I listed you tell me which resume looks better:

Mitchel, judah, baldomir, hoya, hatton, jmm, mosley

Or

Mitchel, judah, baldomir, hoya, hatton, margo, cotto, clottey, jmm, mosley.

As I said it was those welterweights that allowed pac to overtake floyd and become fotd. Those welterweight fights are one of the main reasons floyd's legacy suffered. Winning them gives him a bloody good argument for top ten ww considering the victories he already had and would have.


What it comes down to is that I rate floyd higher than you hence I expected more from him than you hence I was more disappointed when he had his run between castillo and judah.

 

The points you making confirm you haven't been following the news over this time. Plus you're living in never never world where boxing politics doesn't exist and fighters don't avoid Mayweather. Mayweather wasn't a massive payday for these guys until he went PPV and they avoided him

Tyszu was injured when Mayweather moved to 140 and on a different TV network, then he had a mandatory defense against Shamba Mitchell. It couldn't have happened then. The Brussels fight only happened because Gatti was delaying signing.

If you followed boxing back then you'd know Vivian Harris was the fighter Mayweather was supposedly avoiding then. Harris as a WBA champ demanded the lions share of the purse against Hatton, Mayweather and Cotto despite not being a draw. All 3 removed themselves from being in his mandatory position.

Freitas and Casa were not big fights in 2003, not in the same division and busy fighting each other and Corrales. Stevie Johnston was the bigger name and Mayweather should have fought him then, but he did lose in 03 himself. Freitas turned the Mayweather fight down around that time anyway, Casamayor wasn't established but the fight was discussed in 05. Chavez was rated as highly as both at the time all were at 130. Castillo was obviously a bigger risk than both. Ndou was being hyped up big puncher at the time and was taking out some common opponents quicker than Freitas. Both Ndou and Sosa were seen as viable contenders in 03 and Sosa had a case for a win over a LW champ

So beating Mayweather left overs and fighters coming off **** poor performances made him fighter of the decade? For some reason Pacquaio beating opponents coming off loses in their last significant fight is seen as awesome (Morales, Cotto, Mosley, Margarito, Clottey)

 

Have you seen the ndou and sosa fights? After one of them the post fight interviewer asked about the possibility of a fight with freitas or casa and he said he weren't interested.

Castillo'd just beaten johnson and floyd beat him twice so i'm happy with the fight selection there.

I never claimed he ducked harris.

I never claimed he ducked any of these guys, i'm saying his legacy suffers from not fighting them.

Who do you think is greater as it stands: pac or floyd?

 

Fight more regularly... against Cotto, Ortiz, Berto, and beat Pacquiao and Martinez......in my humble opinion....

 

Well allot of people thought Johnston beat Castillo - not a robbery but very close, that would have been a great technical bout. I don't remember those interviews about not wanting Freitas/Casa, I've seen the fights, I'll have to try and see if I can see those interviews

If he fights Pacquaio Margo/Cotto will be forgot about, Clottey is/was pretty much a none factor

I rate Mayweather higher because I think he's better and he's more dominant, ie not lost, Pacquaio for me never proved himself the no1 in any division he's fought in, never facing Guzman from 122-130 where Roach is on record as saying it was a bad style, not proving superior to JMM at 126 or 130, not facing the best at 135, not facing the no1 at 147lbs. You could say Mayweather didn't prove himself the best in his weight classes either I suppose, but I don't think Pac was/is the best in any weight class he's been in, maybe he was at 140 though

 

It was definitely one of them two i think it was max but i wouldn't swear to that.

He proved himself number 1 at flyweight. Same at feather and superfeather (he should have faced guzman instead of solis). He proved himself number 1 at 140 also. Yet to do so at welter. Floyd proved himself number 1 at superfeather for sure. Again at lightweight. And as much as people complain about his ww run his wins over judah and bald deservedly put him number 1.

If you rate floyd higher we hat different criteria.

Do you agree that floyd would have a better legacy had he beaten the names I listed?

 

Well I wasn't talking about 'being considered number 1' but 'proving number 1' without doubt, for me Pacquaio lost at FW to JMM and at SFW to JMM. And although its only my opinion, at the time I always thought Guzman would beat him and the rest of the 130lbers. Guzman was actually Pacquaio's madatatory at 122lbs. Obviously Pacquaio gets a pass from MAB 1-Morales 3, but after that it should have happened

It's a real pity Guzman got so indisciplined because he easily could have been 1 of the best of this era, but none of the stars would fight him in his prime and he messed up his big chance against Campbell :-( He would have been a FW titlist too if Scott Harrison hadn't have pulled out of their fight 2-3times.

Things like that make boxing such a frustrating sport to follow and ofcourse KO losses of your faves make you :| But I think much of the Classic forum miss out on that joy of living through the sport as most tend to live in the past

I honestly have a hard time watching sub 122lbers so I can't comment on Pac's flyweight reign, because I have a problem watching men that small. Although I really should watch Canto as he's 1 of the best ever from a little I've seen of him

If in theory there was a Prime Morales who happened to be 10% bigger and was a WW, I think he'd beat the breaks off the current version of Pacquaio

Yes Floyd would have a better legacy if he'd got those names on his ledger, as he would if he got Hamed/Morales/MAB at 130 or if Tyszu was on the same network and American (lets face it that held Tyszu back promotionally).

I think chasing DLH up to 154lbs, given DLH was the great from 147-154, that DLH should still have been linear after the Mosley 2 rematch, and the fact DLH would have stepped into the ring around 164lbs (DLH always added 10-15lbs) when Mayweather stepped into the ring at 149lbs, gets underrated.

 

gtfoh :****off

This

 

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he'll need this to start...

 

Unifying all the claims, no he never did.

Guzman actually has a condition I think, i'm sure of it.

I rate hoya as his greatest victory for sure.