Muhammad Ali's 1970/75 phase of his career

he would be second, but if you change it to 1970-80, you could make a case for number one all over again.

the time frame you mentioned would be number one head to head.

 

Sorry, I disagree. Frazier beat Ali convincingly in the first fight. Second fight was as even as it gets, third fight was even after 14 rounds and Ali wanted to quit, Futch made a fateful decision, Frazier looked fresher than Ali in the corner to me. Ali admitted he lost the thrid fight to Norton, so he has one convincing win inf five fights against Frazier and Norton.

 

This roughly translates as: Muhammad Ali beat Frazier 2 times out of 3 in addition to beating Norton 2 times out of 3. Compelling argument you just made.

 

hey

 

Sorry, I disagree with good reason, Frazier didn't beat Ali "convincingly" as you said in the first fight, two scorecards read 8-6-1 and 9-6 for Frazier, the third judge who scored it 11-4 in favor of Frazier was watching another fight and was publicly criticized for scoring such a card, in addition Ali sent Frazier to the hospital for a month after the fight. Ali beat Frazier in the first rematch by A LOT, you are probably the first person I ever saw that says it was close, Frazier was tagged all night long by Ali and showed no promise during the fight, he was also saved by the ref in the second round when Ali staggered him and nearly knocked him out. Scorecards in good reason read, 9-3, 8-4, 7-4-1 in favor of Ali. The third fight we all know it was war and neither fighter was ever the same, and it was not even after 14 rounds as you said. The fight WAS even after 10 rounds, but from rounds 11-14 Ali retook control of the fight in manila and ran away with it. In rounds 13-14 the fight turned one-sided, Ali landed enough unanswered punches on Frazier to be the equivalent of a 12 round fight. And also, Ali didn't want to quit, you are just another person on the internet who eats that Frazier-biased lie that runs around on the net, its never been proven, that rumor started 15 years AFTER the fight took place, in part by people who were not even on ringside and of course by Frazier's corner. Futch knew the deal, Frazier w as nearly knocked out, he saved frazier the embarrassment of being KOd by his nemesis. In truth the only really really close bouts were the Norton fights, ALSO ali has never admitted to losing that fight. I have never seen such a claim. I have only seen Norton as being interviewed and quoted as saying that the first fight could have gone either way and that he acknowledges that Ali won the second fight BUT he insists that he won the 3rd fight.

Ali has 4 wins against Norton and Frazier, so, in truth Ali has 3 convincing wins against Frazier and Norton out of 6 bouts, with only one being disputed as very close and controversial, that being the 3rd Norton fight. The first Norton fight could have gone either way as I mentioned before, and Frazier I was close and saw Frazier spend close to one month in the hospital.

 

I forgot to mention that the scorecards in Thrilla in Manila before Ali was awarded the TKO read as follows:

9-4-1 Ali
8-4-2 Ali
9-3-2 Ali

It was not an even fight as you said taobum70(it was for 10 rounds but Ali took all rounds from 11-14). Sure it was a war that saw both guys never be the same again and this was probably the most tired and wiped out Ali ever felt in a victory but his exhaustion was obviously more due to the heat exhaustion than anything else, of course combined with all the body shots he let Frazier tag him with unnecessarily.

 

I love the way some clowns use judges scorecards as evidence unless they disagree with them (see above). 11-4 was a terrible scorecard, yet 9-3 in Manila was right on the money.

 

Strange Manila card that.

I had it 8-6-1 Joe; 7-5 Ali; 8-6 Ali. All fights were close.

 

Convincingly? Frazier was in the hospital for a month after their first fight, so much that rumors circulated Frazier had died and Ali vowed to retire if it was true. That fight was very even after 10 rounds and Frazier proved the winner with a late rounds performance. In the second fight people always mention the clinches, how bout mentioning that Frazier hit Ali repeatedly on the hips? Or that Frazier was nearly knocked out by Ali in the 2nd round, yet the ref saved him with a bad call? Or that Frazier used the clinches to rest? In the third fight, both fighters were never the same, you say it as if Frazier inflicted all the damage and came out untouched. BOTH fighters were mauled by each other but Frazier took the worst end IN FACT. Frazier fought only 2 more times after Manila going 0-1-1, Ali still racked up 8 more wins against very solid contenders such as Shavers, Norton, Evangelista after Manila, not to mention at 37 years old won back the title from Spinks. Sure Ali was never the same either but he still put up a better resume than Frazier after Manila and proved to be more durable than Frazier and Frazier was almost 3 years younger than Ali too. Cheers!!!

 

And I love how I struck a nerve on your system with simply writing what the judges had at the time! :hi: