'80 Lawrence Holmes Vs. '53 Rocco Marciano in a 15 rounder. WHO?

Manny Stewards list

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1- Muhammad Ali, 2- Joe Louis, 3- Larry Holmes, 4- George Foreman, 5- Lennox Lewis, 6- Gene Tunney, 7- Jack Johnson, 8- Rocky Marciano, 9- Sonny Liston, 10- Mike Tyson.

 

how many of these fighters did steward see? futch saw most of them, stewards opinion is no better than yours or mine.

 

holmes was around 210 in his peak. 211 for ali. marciano was always around 188 in title fights so its a max advantage of 22 pounds. its a lot less of an advantage bowe had against holyfeild or or buster mathis had over joe frazier or lenox lewis had over zeljko mavrovic or vitali klitchsko had over chris byrd.

 

The best way to deal with Marciano is to avoid being hit by him as much as possible, and I think Larry had the effective use of height, reach and mobility to minimize the damage enough to win the decision. Snipes and Shavers were able to drop him with their rights, but Snipes was 6'2" with a 78 inch reach, while Earnie had an 80 inch reach and underrated hand speed. Both were faster moving in than Rocky was.

No way this one ends before the final bell. Holmes might hit the deck, but nobody could knock him out with a single shot, or Shavers would have done it. Earnie tried hammering him to the body in both their bouts, and failed to break him down. Larry had plenty of experience coping with body punishment in those early Philly gym wars with Frazier. He could successfully replicate the Charles template in Marciano I, with three more inches of height, eight more inches of reach, and at least 25 pounds more of punch absorbing body weight than past prime Ezz. Rocky and Larry were both durable, and refused to be beaten. I think that jab of Holmes would have been the difference. Louis had success with his shorter jab against Rocky, sweeping rounds three, four and five to take the lead after a slow start, and I believe a peak Holmes could have sustained that long enough to clinch the scoring by the championship rounds.

 

Well yeah no ****

Cus D'Amato said that crowding Marciano was how to fight him. Considering he was able to pin down the slippery Walcott and take him out twice as well as taking into account what fighters gave him trouble and the techniques they used (Charles, Cockell, Moore) I'd be inclined to agree.. Giving him space to close the gap with his suzie q doesn't bode well for Holmes and Larry is also all too willing to exchange on the inside. Rocky was always setting traps and is one of the most cerebral of all champions.

 

i would say holmes stops marciano mid/late rounds , jabs himself to a late stoppage , much like against shavers

 

Charles didn't have the height and reach necessary to minimize this as necessary to win on the cards, at 6'0" with a reach of 73 inches. Rocky did happen to come along at a time when there were very few heavyweights with the combination of height, reach, skill and mobility needed to be able to hit him while simultaneously remaining out of range of his blows. Ten Hoff was a noteworthy exception of the period, and with his 6'3" height and 84 inch reach would have been an interesting visual with Marciano until Rocky got to his chin.

Primo Carnera was somebody else who might have given Marciano major headaches with his long pesky jab and mobility. Tall heavyweights like Carmine Vingo and Buddy Baer didn't optimize their height and reach in this way. Rocky didn't much care what he hit, as long as he hit something.

LaStarza was stylish, but like Charles, Walcott, Moore, Cockell, Matthews, Savold and other signature opponents of Marciano's, he was no more than six feet tall with a reach of 75 inches or less, not enough to hit Rocky without being hit.

Marciano candidly admitted this at the outset of his commentary for Charles I. However, this was also the only option for the reduced stature six foot tall top heavyweights of that era. (If Ten Hoff could take a punch, he might have raised some real hell in that period, although Walcott was certainly able to manage the likes of him and the 6'4" Shkor in back to backs.)

Don't sell Holmes short in the mind department. Shavers decked him, but Earnie had far less overall success getting his right home against Larry than he had in challenging Ali. It took Shavers 19 rounds to finally land him. Norton, Weaver, Smith, Witherspoon, Williams and Michael Spinks also had dangerous right hands. In his first 23 title fights, he was only dropped twice.

 

Is this true? Among everyone, or just HWs? I'd like to see Futch's list if anyone could post it.

 

Nino Valdes was 6'3 215lb and Bob Baker was 6'2 215lb, both top contenders. There were some men around. Marciano did beat 6'2 213lb Joe Louis, and 6'4 Carmine Vingo.

 

Good call......good

SR.BILL:hat

 

I dont think so I belive its 50 50 either way. Marciano is a whole class above Shavers imo. I dont think Holmes would have a easy time like he did with Shavers(Outside of the knockdown)

 

Holmes by stoppage on cuts in 10-12.

Too sharp a puncher against too easy a target, with enough range, jab and footwork to get himself out of trouble spots.

Marciano seems to be losing to neutral observers, but is somehow ahead one two of three cards at the stoppage, with the other even.

 

So what? Valdes, Baker and Vingo ain't no Holmes........:-(

MR.BILL:hat

 

I think people are getting Rocky Balboa and Rocky Marciano confused.

Marciano an easy target? Really?

 

For sure but Mike Weaver and Earnie Shavers ain't no Marciano either...