Higher atg: jones or hoya

I think it's Jones by a clear margin.

But fair points made considering Oscar's body of work...it really is quite solid and has more depth about it.
I have warmed to Oscar a lot more lately and I've moved him up in my new imaginary p4p list that I will never make but it's like a guide in my head.

Roy ticks all the boxes for in the ring dominance and form on film for me...He sorta maxes out with this criteria IMO, making up for his thinish resume.

 

Jones were much closer to prime, I suggest watching Chavez's and Pea's last few fights, they weren't looking good. I also had Whitaker beating

No he didn't Jones fought more champions and Ring rated opponents. There was a reason he was called 'Chicken' in the 90s his run from Whitaker-Quartey run earned him this monikor. Note Arum also delayed the Quartey fight purposely keeping Quartey inactive after again he looked poor against Lopez, Quartey was also recovering from debilitating malaria. And no rematches for the controversal wins

Many people qualify Jones wins saying 'they weren't 100%'/they were past prime. Well this has to be done with Oscar's. Chavez looked past it and only got his title back from Randall in a gift decision after quiting. Vargas was destroyed by Tito and knocked down in his comeback. Mosley in the rematch had been dominated by Forrest and looked poor in his comeback. Whitaker arguably lost to Rivera, nearly lost to Hurtado and was 34. Hopkins was forced into a catchweight at 157 as a 38yo.

You'd be wrong he missed Forrest (his mandatory), Tyszu, rematches with Quartey (many including myself thought he lost) and Trinidad (which would have been massive at 154 as Tito was drained at 147 and was expected to happen), Karmazin, Margarito.

You can't fight everyone but the standards applied to Jones should be applied to Delahoya, for some reason Jones gets far more stick for not rematching Hopkins and Toney who he beat very easily while DLH doesn't get any for not seeking those rematches

...[/quote]So I think past prime he lost 4 and during his prime he lost one and avenged it. He established himself as the legitimate champion from 140 to 154.....[/quote]

You think his fights with Mosley/Trinidad were wins, I agree although Mosley 2 is close. Many of us think he lost close fights to past prime Quartey/Whitaker though

Why don't we put Jones none Toney/BHOPs wins under the spotlight when ranking him:

Hill - lost to DM 8-4, but was a champ with 22defenses and would become a cruser champ after. Destroyed, no one did that to Hill

Reggie Griffin - IBF LHW champion, arguably beat Prime Toney, beat Collins, all of his losses were controversal. HBO wanted this fight above the Collins fight

McCallum - ATG, 38, past prime, but still an ATG tecnhician, dominated. McCallum beat Collins, who Jones supposedly 'ducked'

Griffin - unbeaten and twice beat Toney, a very natural challenge

Tarver - very clear win the first time, ofcourse the haters scream robbery. Jones was gassed after 5, took some serious punnishment proving his chin and heart in this 1. Tarver had just beat Reggie Johnson, Griffin and Harding and he deserved both the Glen Johnson fights. The rematch loss overshadows what a good win this is.

Ruiz - Ruiz has wins over Rahman, Holyfield, Golota - neither Chagaev or Valuev were nearly as dominant as a past prime Jones was.

Del Valle - IBF champ, Del Valle's loss to Hill was controversal so WBA ordered a rematch, Darius was given 90days to fulfill this mandatory but didn't. Universum lied and said it was because WBO/WBA couldn't be held together. If you thought he beat Hill he'd be no1 and unbeaten champions. His loss to Giroud in France was very controversal. Clearly a good win but gets put on the 'bums list' by the haters

Harding - outboxed Tarver for his shot, a very good technician

Mallinga - robbed against Benn (amongst other robberies) and went onto beat him for the WBC title. Jones wins every second and knocks him out in 6

Lucas - future WBC champ, robbed against Beyer in 2003 (I can post a round by round)

Sosa - Toney says he was the hardest hitter he ever faced just knocked out ex-champ Prince Charles Williams, went to an SD with Toney previously, ko'd in 2 by Jones

Tate - Top10 contender, went 12 with Julian Jackson, knocked out in 2 by Jones. Robbed on the road a couple of times

Castro - future champ

Gonzalez - would beat Darius, dominated

Hall - beating Darius up and up on points when stopped on a controversal swelling on his eye. Universium gave a Hall who was struggling only 1months notice for the rematch and hence he was drained.

Woods - would become IBF champ and go 1-1-1 against Glen Johnson. Dominated and stopped - Tarver/Johnson/Cloud - no one else could stop him past his prime


So not only are these top contenders or champions and good wins in their own right they are complete dominations (outside of Griffin 1/Tarver). The level of domination is unreal and because of this the fighters are considered bums - it just looked too easy. No champion in history has been this dominant

 

I like and rate Oscar for sure, but I think you'd have to say Jones was better by a slight margin.

Oscar fought better competition, but lost as many of his big fights as he won by my cards (had him beating Tito & Mosley II and obviously he won against Vargas, had him losing to Pea & Quartey by a point and obviously he lost Mosley I). Jones trounced Toney in his biggest fight, and also posted wins against Hopkins, Tarver, Hill, Griffin etc, while being pretty much untouchable for a long time. Slight edge to Oscar all things considered.

Oscar was a better weight-jumper (I am the eternal sceptic about how good Jones's win over Ruiz actually was), but Jones was more dominant in one weight class (175) than Oscar ever was. Equal.

Jones has Oscar beat all ends up when it comes to peak ability though, a clear and undeniable edge on the h2h at their respective weight classes. I refuse to believe Jones has to go life and death with someone like past-prime Quartey or loses to a Mosley calibre fighter in his prime up at Roy's weight.

For me it's Roy.

 

IMO, Toney & Hopkins were significantly better wins than Chavez & Pea. The Chavez win doesn't even deserve to be mentioned as a major win as I see it, JCC was just too far declined and too far from his prime weight by that point. And I had a well past his best toothless Whitaker still beating Oscar by a point.

The Toney win is clearly better than ODLH-Whitaker, and I'd place Hopkins above it as well. It wasn't a prime Hopkins, but it was close, and it was arguably a physically prime Hopkins. Plus Jones-Hopkins was more clear/comfortable than ODLH-Pea was.

IMO, Oscar's two best wins were Tito and Mosley II, which he won clearly. Are they better than Toney and Hopkins? Very, very tricky question to answer. I lean towards yes (but Jones-Toney is still the best single win of the four), but I still think Roy was greater overall anyway.

 

DLH by a safe mile or two over Jones........:deal

DLH has the gold; Jones does NOT...... Regardless of politricks....:bbb

DLH has been stopped by "Hops and Packy," but never parked like a truck..... When Jones gets KO'd, he gets parked...
:shock:

DLH has also proven to be the much better "Bidness" man, too.... I hear Jones needs money in 2011.....
:roll::rofl

Sorry Charlie, but DLH is supreme......:hat

SR.BILL

 

Chavez isn't in the realm of Toney/Hopkins as a win, Chavez was 34 and not top10 P4P as you state. He went out it when he lost twice to Randall - that second fight against Randall was considered a loss by everyone. Randall and Tyszu were the both in the top10 P4P during that period NOT Chavez

Whitaker is comparable to Hopkins/Toney, but watch his prior 3 fights against Hurtado and Rivera, Whitaker was clearly well past his best, many had him losing to Rivera and he was outboxed and knocked down before

And do you not look at the manner of wins? Completely dominating an opponent ranks over winning a controversal decision in most people's books.

Again your talking about 'who Jones didn't fight' and ignoring who DLH didn't fight pretending Winky was the only name he missed, he wasn't. DLH also didn't fight Forrest/Tyszu/Margarito/Karmazin. Forrest and Tyszu wouldn't have improved his legacy? Seriously? Jones did face most of the ranked LHWs when he fought there

Jackson/Benn/Liles/Darius rank below Toney/Hopkins and Jones beat men who beat all of them

 

you can pretty much stop reading the response here as well as any other posts by this chump.

 

As a fight fan who has watched Boxing for 30 years, ive never seen a talent that shone greater than Roy Jones.. In 50 years, people will marvel at his reflexes and his fighting style .. Oscar was a great fighter, in a more competitive division but it would be impossible to watch film of Oscar and compare him to Roy Jones .... Roy Jones was a one off fighter, a fighter that would have been dominant in any era, Roy Jones at his best would have taken out Monzon, Moore and Charles and would have barely broken sweat, thats nothing against these great fighters but Jones's reflexes and his total domination of range would be totally superior .... Its sad that the current generation would see him being beaten by ordinary fighters like Calzaghe, Lebedev and Hopkins .. Yeah thats right, i did say HOPKINS !!

 

F.O. Dickweed...........:twisted::rofl

 

Oscar was more tested and fought the better guys but lost, and Jones avoided guys but probably had more great skills. But on opposition I pick Oscar. He fought everyone and beat some good guys. Roy lacked the great wins. Neither guys has really great wins against ATG fighters.

 

Bill you are totally wrong on this, ODLH was a great fighter in his prime, but he never displayed skills that other boxers hadnt done before .. Roy Jones Jr was a unique fighter, in the history of boxing, Roy Jones's style will be looked on in awe by any fan of boxing, even in 500 years .. Roy Jones at his best was poetry, he had skills that you just cant teach .. It was a shame that he didnt show his talents against other stellar fighters, but the same can be said of Larry Holmes, and surely everybody has Holmes in the the top 5 of Heavys .. Holmes in my opinion could have beaten anybody in history, and is a particular nightmare for Ali and Louis, let alone Dempsey, Marciano, Lewis, Tyson and Johnson ..

Greb, Tunney, Charles, Moore and Foster are lauded on this forum, but Jones Jr at his best would have beaten them all, he was just that special in my opinion .. De La Hoya was a great 90s fighter, but looking back in time i dont think he would have gotten anywere with fighters like Leonard, Curry, Benitez, Hearns and Duran let alone guys like Robinson ..