'80 Lawrence Holmes Vs. '53 Rocco Marciano in a 15 rounder. WHO?

Past there primes I sort of agree with that, but they were not over the hill, they had more left than say Louis did at the movement they face Marciano. Charles had beating Satterfiled and Wallace, (I belive he was robbed vs Johnson,) and Walcott was champion.

Charles in the early rounds was able for 4 rounds, keep Marciano at a some what distant with the jab, until round 5 were the tide change and Marciano pretty much made the jab unless imo. He still had speed and reach over Marciano, but once Rocky got warm up, the jab became a non factor.

Same with Walcott, Marciano took control in round 3, 4, 5 and 6, until Marciano got blinded, Walcott regain control until the knock out blow, with a round ten going for Marciano.

I dont think Holmes jab would play a big factor once the Rock warms up in a few rounds. If Holmes will win, it would be gutted a back and forth victory in a war, with uppercuts and hooks and fighting BACK like Walcott did in the first fight.

 

The thing we are forgetting about Holmes is he did go down hard several times in his pro career and they were all by right hands. Marciano had one of the best right hands in that division ever.

Holmes went down hard vs Shavers and Snipes and those right hands could have been as good as Marciano s but Shavers lacked stamina and was not a finisher, he has a history of dropping guys and then getting KO'd himself. Snipes landed the big shot but was not a finisher.....Marciano was a finisher

Holmes could not stay on his toes all night and if he used the jab too often he would find Marciano crouching, leaning, rhythm breaking, and not as easy to hit as it looked.

Holmes would be countered by a few variations of Rocky's right hand. Also Rocky was not a one armed fighter and if you avoided the right you would get the left. Best I could see Larry doing in here is trying to survive for as long as he can...trading with Marciano would be a mistake and how long could he stay on his toes at that pace.

 

Point well taken but when you have a guy like holmes that had the physical advantages over marciano like he did, plus knowing how to use those advantages to the maximum extent, I just can't envision rocky winning. Of course anyone who hit as hard as rock did would always have a punchers chance but that's about it. Rocky would have to be able to get to holmes consistently enough to wear him down and i just don't see him being able to get past that jab enough to do it.

Also, with that jab being the weapon that it was holmes wouldn't have needed to use his legs too much. He would have beaten marciano worse than Ali would.

 

Holmes would always have trouble with a 2-fisted puncher with the right hand being the dominant weapon. A prime Holmes may last longer if he moved but I don't think reach is an issue, it space and Holmes failed to keep Tyson out of his space. Yes Holmes was older but he did not have to fight any 2-fisted finishers in his career.
Tyson was one...Shavers was not a finisher and Snipes was lucky to have King rig the decision against Coetzee to get him the title shot instead of Coetzee who dropped him 2times in the fight previous to Holmes.
I know size is a big thing to some but I recall Larry getting KO'd by Marciano sized Nick Wells in the amateurs 2 times and it stuck in my head. I think Larry improved, in fact he was one of my favorite fighters but after the Norton fight I saw some good things in him but I was waiting for the same test he failed and unfortunately it did not come until he was past his best vs Tyson....Marciano had the style to tax Larry and punctuate Larry's krytonite (the Right Hand)

 

double

 

I honestly do not know why you continue to bring up the "down several times" in his career. Out of 75 fights, he was down in 4 of them. 1 was an early career flash knockdown, 2 of them were when he was in his prime and was caught when he was getting careless as he was dominating the fight with ease, and one was when he was comming off of a 2 year layoff when he was already far past his best.

2 of the 4 times were when he was fighting a general concensus top 10 heavyweight puncher (Tyson is arguably the best puncher of all time, and Shavers is most likely the hardest puncher of all time).

I think you sometimes forget that Larry fought a long list of big punchers that were unable to drop him. I'd bet money that had he not fought Weaver, Smith, Mercer, McCall, Norton, Witherspoon, and Cooney, it'd be predicted that he would be down in at least 4 of those fights.

 

I KNOW IT SOUNDS IRRATIONAL, BUT i JUST CAN'T SEE LARRY BEATING MARCIANO, HAVING VIEWED MOST OF MARCIANOS AND HOLMES'S FIGHTS, I FEEL MARCIANOS MONGREL WOULD WIN THE FIGHT, HE ALWAYS FOUND A WAY.

 

Holmes left jab alone would have busted up Marciano. Holmes wins on cuts in 8 rounds.