Yeah Popkins has became a fantastic poster. One of the best posters going now definitely. These threads are brilliant.
you can type two huge paragraphs or simplify it. Duran beat one ATG fighter who fought the wrong fight, and still didn't stop him. Then in the rematch Ray outclassed him. Duran is great, but I think very very overrated. That is my point, and regardless of age and all the other excuses, the wins over ATG fighters is not there for Duran. It is for Ray Leonard. Never is beating Moore or Barkley equal to beating Hearns and Benitez. Those wins are overrated. I think that is what we are talking about here.
he is a good poster, but I think people are taking my perspective and saying no that is not true. This is why and the excuses come. But it seems like Duran fans seem to have a little insecurity when it comes to what I am saying, or they would not defend their points so strongly about beating Moore and Barkley. A good way to defend it would be to say he beat ATG fighters, but he didn't beat many. So then you have to go by the tact well he was a lightweight and older and this was incredible beating Moore who had 11 fights or Barkley who lost to most every top contender he faced, and is only well known for stopping Hearns, who stopped Duran in two.
you and I know how great Ray was and how he used the ring. The second fight proves that Ray could fight his fight if he wanted to. He has said numerous times how he wanted to beat Duran at his own fight. You know what I mean.
I am not insulting Duran as a great, I am insulting the assumption that he is 1-10 ATG. I just do not see the evidence. On his lightweight reign alone is that 1-10 ATG or where do you guys rank him? Because then if you rank him 30 after his reign, you are saying that beating Ray and then all the 1980's fights get him from 30 to 10. . Yet in those fights he lost to most of the guys of the 1980s. So you guys are overrating his fights at a time when you guys say he was way up in weight and old. Doesn't really make much sense. How does he go up 20 points in ATG ranking at a time you guys say he was no good. Seems contradictory.
Not really. Ray fought the fight he wanted to fight, the fight he said he was going to fight. And he lost. A great victory for Duran in what was one of the greatest fights of the last third of a century.
a great victory would have been Duran knocking out the 1981 Leonard/knocking out Ray in the rematch. I don't see this as great. I see this as predictable if Ray was going to fight an inside fight. People are putting the great Leonard into the fight in June of 1980 instead of the still a little green Ray who didn't use every aspect of a fight to win the fights, like he did later. He learned the game after the first Duran fight, and he beat Duran easily after that. As did Benitez and Hearns.
That makes no difference. It still was. To describe your opinion as 'minority' would be a massive understatement. It wasn't. Leonard was the clear betting favourite. Ray fought exactly the fight he trained and planned for. Ray was already a big star in 1980. His victory over Benitez assured him of that. 'Green' does not apply here. He had already picked up 3/4 of his career wins. And as for little, which one was moving up ?
which one really was moving up? I have stated for years how Duran fought at 154 as early as 1978 before Hearns,Benitez or Ray ever fought at 154. This was not Pacman fighting Delahoya in Dec. of 2008. Duran knew the weight.
You only answered ONE point, and not very well. You do know that boxer's walk-around weight is usually quite a bit higher than where they weigh in ? And that when Duran faced no-hoper Obando (0-3-0), it was nothing more than a practice match against his countryman ? Boxrec doesn't always tell the whole story, Mag. Duran was a LW at 27. You don't 'grow' into a higher weight at that age, Duran moved up two divisions. Leonard was never a LW.
My points are very clear. Duran beat only one ATG fighter, and that same fighter beat him easier in the rematch. Where does his career show that he is 1-10 ATG? And if it does, than someone like Thomas Hearns who beat more ATG and HOF guys than Duran, should be rated higher. And certainly Sugar Ray Leonard beat more greats than Duran and has a better record against better fighters. My friend and I discussed Duran fighting at 147 and 154 as early as 1979 since we knew he was fighting tuneups as early as 78, when Hearns and Leonard were still contenders. Practice or not, Duran fighting at welt and superwelterweight shows that he indeed was not the small lightweight people try to make him out to be.
I don't think Duran grew into a higher weight, I think he lost weight to fight at lightweight. In the 3 years I have been on ESB, I still have not had anyone show me how Duran is 1-10 ATG.
And it's unlikely anyone ever will. Your mind is made up. Nevertheless, aside from Ali, Duran is the greatest fighter of alltime still alive today.